Split Thread Akron police shoot unarmed man 60 times

[smartcooky]

Don't forget, after he fired that shot he removed the magazine and cleared the weapon leaving it unloaded before he stopped the car and got out.

That can be done-one handed in less than two seconds.

 

[Andy_Ross]

That can be done-one handed in less than two seconds.

But why?

Plus, you can drop a mag one handed but how do you rack the slide to clear the round in the chamber one handed in less than two seconds?

Don't talk bollocks.

 

[Thermal]

That can be done-one handed in less than two seconds.

Any semi? And anyone? With a gun in an unknown state of cleanliness, machining and lubrication? Bold claim there, Cotton

 

[smartcooky]

Any semi? And anyone? With a gun in an unknown state of cleanliness, machining and lubrication? Bold claim there, Cotton

Jayland Walker's handgun was a Glock 19.

The magazine release is on the left side of the frame right behind the trigger guard

Removing the magazine: A lefty can release the mag with his trigger finger, a righty, with his thumb.

Clearing the weapon: All you have to do is cock it with no magazine. There are two ways to do this with one hand
1. Hook the rear sight on a solid edge and push the weapon forward. The slide will stay back and the round will eject, or
2. Jerk the weapon forward hard. The slide will stay back and the round will eject.

In both cases, pressing the slide release (there is one on each side) will let it go forward. I have used both of these methods myself on a Glock 17 (same deal) at a commercial range (Cable Bay Shooting Adventures* near Nelson) The first one is easy, anyone can do it, the second one is more difficult and takes some practice.

* This is a privately owned shooting range. They have special permits for some types of weapons, such has handguns, that are not available to the public.

 

[Andy_Ross]

funny stuff.

 

[smartcooky]

funny stuff.

Having trouble dealing with facts are you?

 

[Thermal]

Jayland Walker's handgun was a Glock 19.

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6w106ot4qbvwz7/Jayland%20Walker%20Handgun.png?raw=1[/qimg] [qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gj39bm0uq0o83a/glock-left-s.jpg?raw=1[/qimg]


The magazine release is on the left side of the frame right behind the trigger guard

Removing the magazine: A lefty can release the mag with his trigger finger, a righty, with his thumb.

Clearing the weapon: All you have to do is cock it with no magazine. There are two ways to do this with one hand
1. Hook the rear sight on a solid edge and push the weapon forward. The slide will stay back and the round will eject, or
2. Jerk the weapon forward hard. The slide will stay back and the round will eject.

In both cases, pressing the slide release (there is one on each side) will let it go forward. I have used both of these methods myself on a Glock 17 (same deal) at a commercial range (Cable Bay Shooting Adventures* near Nelson) The first one is easy, anyone can do it, the second one is more difficult and takes some practice.

* This is a privately owned shooting range. They have special permits for some types of weapons, such has handguns, that are not available to the public.

Yes. I know. We all know. But that wasn't the question.

A lot of posters talk about a street criminal using a gun as they would use their own: a well maintained and cleaned piece of hardware, used by a prudent owner who is familiar with the guns operation and handles it responsibly.

Serious question: have you ever seen an American criminal and their gun? You'd be horrified and afraid to touch the thing because most have never heard of cleaning the gun, and know nothing of its operation except point and pull. It's certainly never seen a drop of oil.

How often have you tried your first approach while in a car chase at night with you driving panicking from approaching police? With a ski mask on in midsummer, to keep level of difficulty comparable?

How well does the second approach work with a Glock that has never been cleaned or stored in a case?

 

[smartcooky]

Yes. I know. We all know. But that wasn't the question.

It was still relevant. You didn't know it was a Glock 19, otherwise you would NOT have asked "any semi?"

Do you have evidence that the gun wasn't maintained properly? If you have, then let's see it!

A lot of posters talk about a street criminal using a gun as they would use their own: a well maintained and cleaned piece of hardware, used by a prudent owner who is familiar with the guns operation and handles it responsibly.

Serious question: have you ever seen an American criminal and their gun? You'd be horrified and afraid to touch the thing because most have never heard of cleaning the gun, and know nothing of its operation except point and pull. It's certainly never seen a drop of oil.

Serious question: Do you have evidence that Jayland Walker was a "street criminal" who didn't maintain his handgun? If you have, then let's see it!

How often have you tried your first approach while in a car chase at night with you driving panicking from approaching police? With a ski mask on in midsummer, to keep level of difficulty comparable?

Do you have evidence it can't be done in those circumstances, with that level of difficulty? If you have, then let's see it!

How well does the second approach work with a Glock that has never been cleaned or stored in a case?

I repeat, do you have evidence that the gun wasn't maintained properly? If you have, then let's see it!

 

[Andy_Ross]

Show me how you would drop a magazine and clear a pistol while driving a car in just a few seconds.

 

[smartcooky]

Show me how you would drop a magazine and clear a pistol while driving a car in just a few seconds.

I can't personally show you as I don't own a handgun, but I can describe to you how I would do what you ask with just one hand.

I'm a rightie, using a Glock 19 - first, press the release button and let the magazine fall out (<1 second), then place the top-rear of the slide HARD against the bottom right quarter of the steering wheel so that the rear-sight is snug against your side of the wheel. Push the weapon forwards and the slide will stay, ejecting the round (about 1 second)

Its that simple. You can even release the slide one handed - This is a Glock 23, but the principle is the same

https://youtu.be/8iaW4BsaNP4?t=98

 

[Warp12]

Can you just drop the mag and then pop off the round, if a round is already chambered? Then the gun is empty and magazine detached?

I am not familiar with Glocks but if that is possible with their safety setup, seems like a likely scenario.

 

[smartcooky]

Can you just drop the mag and then pop off the round, if a round is already chambered? Then the gun is empty and magazine detached?

I am not familiar with Glocks but if that is possible with their safety setup, seems like a likely scenario.

Yes

https://aimingexpert.com/will-a-glock-fire-without-a-magazine/

"Glocks will fire without a magazine present. The safety measure on a Glock is built into the trigger. If a round is chambered, regardless of whether a magazine is present, the firing pin will strike the percussion cap and a round will be fired when the trigger is pulled."​

And actually, I hadn't thought of that. It would be easy to just drop the magazine, point the weapon out the window and shoot. It would also fit the evidence of where the items were found.

The photo I posted earlier was not how all the items were found. They were placed together for that photograph, but in actual fact the weapon and the spent cartridge were found in the back seat, the ring and magazine were found on the front passenger's seat.

If Walker was a righty, all he had to do was hold his hand to the right, and drop the magazine onto the passenger seat and then point the weapon out the window and shoot. The Glock 19 ejects the spent cartridge up, back and left, so from the driver's position, pointing it out the window (not putting the whole gun outside) and firing would eject the shell towards the rear seat*

Of course, the slide locks back when the last round is fired, magazine or no magazine, but it will come forward with a flick of the slide lock, again, magazine, or no magazine.

*ETA: Also, shell casing was found on the road at the spot where the muzzle flash was recorded, but they haven't yet determined if it is a match to Walker's weapon.

 

[smartcooky]

It would be easy to just drop the magazine, point the weapon out the window and shoot. It would also fit the evidence of where the items were found.

The photo I posted earlier was not how all the items were found. They were placed together for that photograph, but in actual fact the weapon and the spent cartridge were found in the back seat, the ring and magazine were found on the front passenger's seat.

If Walker was a righty, all he had to do was hold his hand to the right, and drop the magazine onto the passenger seat and then point the weapon out the window and shoot. The Glock 19 ejects the spent cartridge up, back and left, so from the driver's position, pointing it out the window (not putting the whole gun outside) and firing would eject the shell towards the rear seat

Correction. The hilited is not necessarily correct. A Glock 19 ejects the cartridges straight up and slightly to the right (not left) although they can be a bit random. I have seen more than a few end up on the left side of the shooter..

 

[sarge]

The most reasonable explanation that considers what we currently know is that he dropped the mag and fired the remaining round in the chamber. If the photo above is accurate, he then released the action so the slide would move back forward. All of this is very easily accomplished with one hand, while driving, with very little prior experience, with a poorly maintained gun. Press one button (drops mag) pull trigger, press one button (releases slide).

 

[Andy_Ross]

The most reasonable explanation is that the gun was never loaded and no shot was fired.

 

[smartcooky]

The most reasonable explanation is that the gun was never loaded and no shot was fired.

This goes against literally ALL of the evidence

 

[Thermal]

It was still relevant. You didn't know it was a Glock 19, otherwise you would NOT have asked "any semi?"

Do you have evidence that the gun wasn't maintained properly? If you have, then let's see it!




Serious question: Do you have evidence that Jayland Walker was a "street criminal" who didn't maintain his handgun? If you have, then let's see it!




Do you have evidence it can't be done in those circumstances, with that level of difficulty? If you have, then let's see it!


I repeat, do you have evidence that the gun wasn't maintained properly? If you have, then let's see it!

Please try to read for comprehension. I suspect that the gun may not have been as well maintained and cleaned as those you mention at ranges. I suspect this from my personal experience with hommies who are not exactly responsible sportsmen.

And did you suggest that a guy being chased by police while driving a car would position and push the slide back on the lower part of the steering wheel (that he is actually driving with) to clear the chambered round? That seems to be the extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence, more so than a criminal not being trained in proper weapon maintanence.

 

[Thermal]

Yes

https://aimingexpert.com/will-a-glock-fire-without-a-magazine/

"Glocks will fire without a magazine present. The safety measure on a Glock is built into the trigger. If a round is chambered, regardless of whether a magazine is present, the firing pin will strike the percussion cap and a round will be fired when the trigger is pulled."​

And actually, I hadn't thought of that. It would be easy to just drop the magazine, point the weapon out the window and shoot. It would also fit the evidence of where the items were found.
The photo I posted earlier was not how all the items were found. They were placed together for that photograph, but in actual fact the weapon and the spent cartridge were found in the back seat, the ring and magazine were found on the front passenger's seat.

If Walker was a righty, all he had to do was hold his hand to the right, and drop the magazine onto the passenger seat and then point the weapon out the window and shoot. The Glock 19 ejects the spent cartridge up, back and left, so from the driver's position, pointing it out the window (not putting the whole gun outside) and firing would eject the shell towards the rear seat*

Of course, the slide locks back when the last round is fired, magazine or no magazine, but it will come forward with a flick of the slide lock, again, magazine, or no magazine.

*ETA: Also, shell casing was found on the road at the spot where the muzzle flash was recorded, but they haven't yet determined if it is a match to Walker's weapon.

I literally posed that on page one of the thread, post #33.

 

[sarge]

The most reasonable explanation is that the gun was never loaded and no shot was fired.

Not with what we know at the moment. At the moment, knowing that cops heard a shot and that a flash was caught on video and that a ‘bang’ was captured on video and that a shell casing was found, and that a gun was found with a loaded magazine, the most reasonable explanation is that he dropped the magazine and then fired a shot.

If something comes that refutes the cop story that a shell casing was found or something that better explains the flash/bang, or the flash/bang, then it will be time to explore other theories.

 

[smartcooky]

Please try to read for comprehension. I suspect that the gun may not have been as well maintained and cleaned as those you mention at ranges. I suspect this from my personal experience with hommies who are not exactly responsible sportsmen.

Your personal suspicions are not evidence of anything

And did you suggest that a guy being chased by police while driving a car would position and push the slide back on the lower part of the steering wheel (that he is actually driving with) to clear the chambered round? That seems to be the extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence, more so than a criminal not being trained in proper weapon maintanence.

The conversation has gone beyond this so please try to keep up.

While I think this is easy to do (at least for anyone who can walk and chew gum) others have suggested there may have been an easier way, just drop out the magazine, fire the shot and press the slide release, all done with one hand in seconds. I can teach anyone to do this in less than a minute.

And no, the cleanliness of the weapon is irrelevant to any of this. The magazine is NOT a tight fit in the mag well, and in any case, the mag well in the Glock 19 on Walker's front seat looks clean enough to me. In fact, the weapon looks well maintained.