Electric Vehicles

[jadebox]

Saw an Ego zero turn riding mower at our overpriced Ace True Value that was almost $6000. That’s a lot of gas/diesel.

That's the one I was considering. I have other Ego products and are quite pleased with them. But, I paid about $2000 less for my lawn tractor that has a wider cut and is a bit more versatile. I suspect when I am ready for a new tractor in a few years, it will be electric. I'd prefer not to mess with gas and gas engines.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I stopped at a local, very vermonty, which is to say lots of lawn and stuff, shopping center the other day for some ice cream, and the grounds were being mowed by an electric walk behind mower with a stand-on sulky. I imagine it was pretty expensive too, but so are the pro quality gas ones, and this one was nice and quiet, and of course, simple. No idle, no noise at all when moving, until the rotary blades started up.

I suspect that it will take some time to pay off, but not so long if there was a need for a new mower anyway. With the cheap power, and essentially no maintenance other than sharpening the blade, I bet it works out pretty well.

I saw some confidential calculations that a professional lawn crew could recouped the cost in 18 months. And that included a pretty fancy recharging system on the truck/trailer. The main problem is that most professional lawn crews don’t have the access to financing that they would need to make it work. Another problem was that there is more margin in selling those cells in smaller packages for use on smaller tools.

 

[Dr. Keith]

That's the one I was considering. I have other Ego products and are quite pleased with them. But, I paid about $2000 less for my lawn tractor that has a wider cut and is a bit more versatile. I suspect when I am ready for a new tractor in a few years, it will be electric. I'd prefer not to mess with gas and gas engines.

We just bought a used tractor and my main complaint is that I now have to store diesel. We also have a gas chain saw, but I think I’m going to spend the money for a battery pole saw. We need one and I’d like to see how well it works under heavy use.

Eta: I’ve used gas pole saws and hated every minute.

 

[gnome]

I guess the idea is that as soon as Congress turns red, gas will become almost free, all environmental legislation will be swept away and the government will actively discouraged EVs.

The first is nonsense, but I can definitely see the second two happening. The oil and auto lobbies are very well funded.

You mean they might have the government try to kill an industry? Honestly I thought they were against that sort of thing.

 

[bruto]

I saw some confidential calculations that a professional lawn crew could recouped the cost in 18 months. And that included a pretty fancy recharging system on the truck/trailer. The main problem is that most professional lawn crews don’t have the access to financing that they would need to make it work. Another problem was that there is more margin in selling those cells in smaller packages for use on smaller tools.

I have already forgotten, but I think this was either a big pro lawn outfit or municipal, so I think they had the funds.

The cost difference isn't much when you're talking about your own lawn, but if you mow all day every day of the week, and if you have more than one machine in service, that difference really adds up. Add maintenance costs, the salary of the person doing the maintenance, and the cost of emergency repairs (new engines are expensive), it adds up more.

Sometimes, though, I wonder what takes people so long. I used to devour Popular Science as a kid, and so did my father when he was a kid.

They've almost all been discarded or left behind over the years of moves and all, but somewhere I still have a clipping from a 1928 issue about a man who had just invented a catalytic converter for his car.

And it has to be at least 50 years ago by now, that PS had a cover story of an electric GE lawn tractor that ran on fuel cells.

 

[jadebox]

An issue for lawn services is that it isn't easy to recharge an electric mower when at a job site, but pretty easy to fill it with gas.

 

[Shalamar]

An issue for lawn services is that it isn't easy to recharge an electric mower when at a job site, but pretty easy to fill it with gas.

Sounds like a Use Scenario for the Ford F150 Lightning with it's ability to charge devices.

 

[Dr. Keith]

An issue for lawn services is that it isn't easy to recharge an electric mower when at a job site, but pretty easy to fill it with gas.

The concept I was looking at had several options for charging aboard a vehicle, depending on the vehicle. If you have a gas or diesel truck the mileage impact of a slightly larger alternator and a proper dc to dc converter and charger is nearly negligible. It makes the equipment all gas powered, but powered by a single high efficiency gas engine that is already in use and has a very predictable service life, rather than a half dozen small engines of varying quality and efficiency. An onboard set of replacement batteries increases the payback time significantly, but also adds more service time.

A lot of the efficiency gains come from the shorter run time of the battery equipment due to no idling. Edgers, blowers, and push mowers spend a significant amount of their run time idling.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Slight panic when the 12v conventional car battery failed on the Leaf on Monday. Diagnosed by the good people on smartEV forum, who asked, "is it four years old? If so better get a new battery."

It is, so I did

 

[The Don]

Drove Mrs Don's Fiat for the first time today.

One pedal driving is intuitive and the way of the future.

The car is nippy and handles very well. I look forward to driving it again around Christmas.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Slight panic when the 12v conventional car battery failed on the Leaf on Monday. Diagnosed by the good people on smartEV forum, who asked, "is it four years old? If so better get a new battery."

It is, so I did

Do you not have auto parts stores that will diagnose battery problems.

They are around every corner in the US.

Of course they want to sell you a new battery, but they will test the battery and the charging system to pinpoint the problem.

The diagnostics are free and you don't have to buy a battery from them.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Slight panic when the 12v conventional car battery failed on the Leaf on Monday. Diagnosed by the good people on smartEV forum, who asked, "is it four years old? If so better get a new battery."

It is, so I did

That happened to my Leaf a few months ago. But I didn't replace it, I just built a trickle charger to keep it topped up in the garage.

Problem was the previous owner had installed a 'Calcium' battery, which has a longer shelf life but needs a higher 'float' voltage to stay in good condition. When turned off the car charges the 12V battery once a week, but not to the recommended voltage for this type of battery. As a result its health can slowly degrade if the car is not charged and driven regularly.

However the car only needs ~15A to start (10~20 times less than a gas car), so even with greatly reduced capacity my battery is still fine - so long as I keep it topped up.

Ironic that the 'conventional' 12V Lead Acid battery is the least reliable part of the vehicle. However if charged properly it should last a lot longer than it would in a gas car.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Do you not have auto parts stores that will diagnose battery problems.

They are around every corner in the US.

Of course they want to sell you a new battery, but they will test the battery and the charging system to pinpoint the problem.

The diagnostics are free and you don't have to buy a battery from them.

We do, I just couldn't get to one with a dead battery

That happened to my Leaf a few months ago. But I didn't replace it, I just built a trickle charger to keep it topped up in the garage.

Problem was the previous owner had installed a 'Calcium' battery, which has a longer shelf life but needs a higher 'float' voltage to stay in good condition. When turned off the car charges the 12V battery once a week, but not to the recommended voltage for this type of battery. As a result its health can slowly degrade if the car is not charged and driven regularly.

However the car only needs ~15A to start (10~20 times less than a gas car), so even with greatly reduced capacity my battery is still fine - so long as I keep it topped up.

Ironic that the 'conventional' 12V Lead Acid battery is the least reliable part of the vehicle. However if charged properly it should last a lot longer than it would in a gas car.

I need to buy a battery charger, that much is clear

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Drove Mrs Don's Fiat for the first time today.

One pedal driving is intuitive and the way of the future.

The car is nippy and handles very well. I look forward to driving it again around Christmas.

Just don't have massive plates

 

[Lplus]

Drove Mrs Don's Fiat for the first time today.

One pedal driving is intuitive and the way of the future.

The car is nippy and handles very well. I look forward to driving it again around Christmas.

One pedal driving makes me think of electric cars for kids. I suppose it has to be intuitive for a 4 year old to master it.

 

[The Don]

Just don't have massive plates

Mine are a size 10 and I was wearing trainers. Wouldn't want to be wearing more bulky footwear or have larger feet.

One pedal driving makes me think of electric cars for kids. I suppose it has to be intuitive for a 4 year old to master it.

Why does it make you think of electric cars for kids ?

I think that one of the reasons why I found one pedal driving so intuitive is that I already try to anticipate as much as possible and use the brake as little as possible on my ICE. The only slightly "hairy" moment was when we were coming down a 10% gradient at around 50 on a narrow road with a 90 degree turn at the bottom. Even then, in "Normal" mode there was sufficient regenerative braking (and good enough handling) to make it comfortably around the corner.

 

[Lplus]

Mine are a size 10 and I was wearing trainers. Wouldn't want to be wearing more bulky footwear or have larger feet.



Why does it make you think of electric cars for kids ?

I think that one of the reasons why I found one pedal driving so intuitive is that I already try to anticipate as much as possible and use the brake as little as possible on my ICE. The only slightly "hairy" moment was when we were coming down a 10% gradient at around 50 on a narrow road with a 90 degree turn at the bottom. Even then, in "Normal" mode there was sufficient regenerative braking (and good enough handling) to make it comfortably around the corner.

Because it is a drastic simplification/elimination of a process I personally have no difficulty with and often find satisfying to carry out, to whit the use of a manual gearbox and clutch to drive a car and a braking system to stop it. The more simplified a process becomes the more the phrase "a child could do that" comes to mind.

Now I can understand that those who can't cope with a manual gearbox, those who get no pleasure from using a manual gearbox, and those who's journey involves nothing but nose to tail traffic needing or at least preferring an auto box, and the one pedal system is just an auto box with the inclusion of "automatic braking". (Yes I realise manual cars have a small amount of retardation off throttle, but it isn't something I choose to rely on.)

You yourself have highlighted a significant problem with that sort of system in that you are relying on the regen braking to slow the car, and it may not be sufficient for the job. Unfortunately by the time you have realised that it may be too late, whilst those who expected to use a footbrake would already be braking as necessary. I suppose it's the same as "self driving" - by the time you realise the system isn't going to cope you may be too late.

 

[lobosrul5]

Because it is a drastic simplification/elimination of a process I personally have no difficulty with and often find satisfying to carry out, to whit the use of a manual gearbox and clutch to drive a car and a braking system to stop it. The more simplified a process becomes the more the phrase "a child could do that" comes to mind.

Now I can understand that those who can't cope with a manual gearbox, those who get no pleasure from using a manual gearbox, and those who's journey involves nothing but nose to tail traffic needing or at least preferring an auto box, and the one pedal system is just an auto box with the inclusion of "automatic braking". (Yes I realise manual cars have a small amount of retardation off throttle, but it isn't something I choose to rely on.)

You yourself have highlighted a significant problem with that sort of system in that you are relying on the regen braking to slow the car, and it may not be sufficient for the job. Unfortunately by the time you have realised that it may be too late, whilst those who expected to use a footbrake would already be braking as necessary. I suppose it's the same as "self driving" - by the time you realise the system isn't going to cope you may be too late.

(Yes I realise manual cars have a small amount of retardation off throttle, but it isn't something I choose to rely on.)

Hmm, I've only once ever owned a manual and it was towards the beginning of my time as a driver. But I actually made a game of trying to stop just using the clutch. I managed to do it a number of times without even touching the brake pedal.

 

[zooterkin]

Because it is a drastic simplification/elimination of a process I personally have no difficulty with and often find satisfying to carry out, to whit the use of a manual gearbox and clutch to drive a car and a braking system to stop it. The more simplified a process becomes the more the phrase "a child could do that" comes to mind.

Now I can understand that those who can't cope with a manual gearbox, those who get no pleasure from using a manual gearbox, and those who's journey involves nothing but nose to tail traffic needing or at least preferring an auto box, and the one pedal system is just an auto box with the inclusion of "automatic braking". (Yes I realise manual cars have a small amount of retardation off throttle, but it isn't something I choose to rely on.)

You yourself have highlighted a significant problem with that sort of system in that you are relying on the regen braking to slow the car, and it may not be sufficient for the job. Unfortunately by the time you have realised that it may be too late, whilst those who expected to use a footbrake would already be braking as necessary. I suppose it's the same as "self driving" - by the time you realise the system isn't going to cope you may be too late.

Well, that's a load of unsubstantiated nonsense.

I'm perfectly capable of driving a manual car (I've been doing it for forty years), but the last few cars I've had have been automatic. I haven't missed having to change gear at all, but I have no problem if I need to (our motorhome is a diesel with a manual box).

An electric car is not simply an auto box; there are no gears at all, it's direct drive. I've been driving mine for only a few months, but I've had no cases where it's been too late to use the foot brake. (Also, using the foot brake also engages regenerative braking as well as the actual brakes.) Mine also has adaptive cruise control, which is great on motorways, and in traffic jams; you don't need to touch the brakes at all (though of course you should always be ready to if necessary).

 

[The Don]

Because it is a drastic simplification/elimination of a process I personally have no difficulty with and often find satisfying to carry out, to whit the use of a manual gearbox and clutch to drive a car and a braking system to stop it. The more simplified a process becomes the more the phrase "a child could do that" comes to mind.

Now I can understand that those who can't cope with a manual gearbox, those who get no pleasure from using a manual gearbox, and those who's journey involves nothing but nose to tail traffic needing or at least preferring an auto box, and the one pedal system is just an auto box with the inclusion of "automatic braking". (Yes I realise manual cars have a small amount of retardation off throttle, but it isn't something I choose to rely on.)

You yourself have highlighted a significant problem with that sort of system in that you are relying on the regen braking to slow the car, and it may not be sufficient for the job. Unfortunately by the time you have realised that it may be too late, whilst those who expected to use a footbrake would already be braking as necessary. I suppose it's the same as "self driving" - by the time you realise the system isn't going to cope you may be too late.

The car will also stop itself if it's going to run into something if you misjudge the regenerative braking and forget to use the brake.

More likely more reliable than a human given the number of "rear-endings" I've seen over the years and the couple I've had to endure.