Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
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- May 26, 2006
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That is indeed the simplest part.
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Split Thread Akron police shoot unarmed man 60 times
- Thread starter alfaniner
- Start date
That is indeed the simplest part.
I don't feel the above is very congruent. What is the sign you are waiting for? An official announcement that a duel is commencing?
Were you just in high speed chase where you were popping caps out of the vehicle, and then pursued in a foot chase, and then reached for your waistband? If so, yeah, they should be OK to waste you.
This didn't go down like your visit to the jobsite. We are talking about what happened in this particular event. Come on, bro.
What are you planning to charge the cops with, "excessive shooting of a suspect who has behaved in a manner that allows for use of lethal force"?
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plague311
Great minds think...
I don't feel the above is very congruent. What is the sign you are waiting for? An official announcement that a duel is commencing?
LoL I'd settle for "actual visual confirmation there's a gun". After all, it was over the weekend of the fourth. Would it be that odd to think the flash could have been anything else? Like, a firework? Did he shoot anyone? Did the cops see the gun before hand? Is there any confirmation that the police knew he had a gun before any of the foot chase, etc. happened?
So far all I've heard as far as "evidence" of a gun is that there was a flash, as if flashes can't happen from all ******* sorts of **** in a speed chase. Doesn't sound like he shot the window out.
But yeah, apparently it's so important that not one single cop be faced with any form of inherent danger that 8 of them can blast a man for...that's right...touching his waistband. What a ******* terrible thought process to have, let alone condone and cheer for.
Thermal
August Member
I don't feel the above is very congruent. What is the sign you are waiting for? An official announcement that a duel is commencing?
Of course not. Just knowing that he is pointing a weapon, as opposed to thinking that he maybe might be moving in such a way consistent with possibly similar hand movements like drawing an invisible concealed weapon. Too high a bar? Really?
The principle is the same: should those entrusted with police powers have to meet a higher bar? I think they should. Should they ever be allowed to preemptively use lethal force "just in case"? Absolutely never.
The comparison with yours truly need not be identical to compare the principle at play: do cops get free license to kill strictly because they are afraid of the unseen? The answer has to be a resounding NO.
Try it on for size: if you feel threatened on the street by a menacing looking guy, and he reaches towards his waist, do you think you have free license to shoot him...especially if he turns out to be unarmed? You'd be going down for murder. A cop, with police powers, should be held not only to the same standard, but a higher one.
Nothing the Masked Target did warranted lethal response. The most he could be charged with was possibly discharging a weapon in a car (the cops only think that's what happened at that point), and evading arrest.
You think swinging your hands near your waist while running warrants lethal response? Experiment: let's see you run hard without your hands frequently moving near your waist. Hard to do, yeah? So unless the cops release footage of him stopping and turning around while unholstering (yes, it would prob have to be holstered, or it would fall out like three strides into the foot chase) and his hands containing something that looks like a gun being pointed their way, then the cops have no defense.
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After listening to this level of argument, I wish they shot this bastard 61+ times, now.
Yeah, chum...that is exactly what happened. This innocent civilian was just minding his own business, reached for his waistband, and boom! A bunch of random cops gunned him down. Probably they also did it just because he was black.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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- 32,673
Fire the entire police force, hire the better half back for a 50% increase in salary, use the rest of the savings for training (the non-racist kind).
Repeat until you achieve the desired result.
Repeat until you achieve the desired result.
Thermal
August Member
Ok man, sure.
If you could answer the question directly about whether cops have the right to come on my jobsite with sidearm drawn and pointed (or tell me what I was doing that warranted such a response), things get crystal clear real fast.
So come on, bro: are cops justified in sneaking up on me pointing their weapons when I am on a property, in my lettered utility van, with the owners permission, demonstrable with my cel phone, to find out why the heat stopped working on a cold winter's night?
If you could answer the question directly about whether cops have the right to come on my jobsite with sidearm drawn and pointed (or tell me what I was doing that warranted such a response), things get crystal clear real fast.
So come on, bro: are cops justified in sneaking up on me pointing their weapons when I am on a property, in my lettered utility van, with the owners permission, demonstrable with my cel phone, to find out why the heat stopped working on a cold winter's night?
What does your example have to do with this guy's situation? Nothing.
Now, the way you tell the story, they had no reason to draw on you. So what? It is possible that there had been armed robberies or burglaries in the neighborhood, which is why they were called...who knows? Maybe you appeared shady AF? Maybe it was evil cops? To know for sure, just pick a bias. Who cares? It has zero to do with this case.
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plague311
Great minds think...
After listening to this level of argument, I wish they shot this bastard 61+ times, now.
Yeah, chum...that is exactly what happened. This innocent civilian was just minding his own business, reached for his waistband, and boom! A bunch of random cops gunned him down. Probably they also did it just because he was black.
That's one hell of a strawman you've put together here. Then again, fallacies are the only thing you ever offer. Never a reasoned argument, just snark, trolling, and fallacies.
I'll let you enjoy your time with the others that will waste their time responding to you as if you've ever had a good faith argument in your life.
sarge
Penultimate Amazing
There was never a real risk of a cop taking a bullet in this, and so many other, cop shootings. If what the police are claiming turns out to be true (the chief has already lied about one significant thing), then the cops were justified in having their guns in their hands. It isn’t evident that they were justified in shooting the suspect.
How many unarmed Americans can die because the cops are taught to kill when they feel the slightest provocation and you still be okay with it?
Thermal
August Member
It has everything to do with when cops can approach suspects with deadly force.
Some police think that their own comfort is more important than a suspects life. That's what this is all about. The police in this OP had no reason at all to believe they were about to be shot at, or that the Masked Target even had a gun on him anymore. They shot because they were afraid. Or just murderers, take your pick. I'm going with "cowards" to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Back to my situation: no unusual volume of robberies, certainly none at all armed. They hadn't even seen me yet, as I was inside. The truck is lettered with my name, town, and contractor registration number, per NJ law.
Again: do police have any reason to arrive on my site with sidearm pointed, because some old lady can't figure out why a contractor would be called to an empty property? Do you really think police are so stupid that they could not figure it out?
No. They were hoping/preparing for violence, or too cowardly to be on the street with guns.
Now let's see how that might apply to this OP.
With all due respect, I don't know WTF you are talking about above.
I'm going to bow out of this incredibly lame onslaught of delusional cop hate before the ghost of ST shows up on the scene.
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Thermal
August Member
Bow as you wish, but to clarify:
Police thought a shot was fired from inside the car. They then chased an empty handed man around. They killed him when they maybe saw him reaching near his waist when running, assuming an invisible gun (which we know now was BS).
Cops cannot kill because "maybe gee I dunno possible". If they are unwilling to show extreme restraint before killing, they need a nice safe desk job more suited to their temperament.
I can understand, to a point, reacting to a reach for the waistband, though I think better training (for the safety of all) would be to duck for cover in response to such an action. Given that most of us carry things like are ID and keys in our pockets, automatically assuming weapon doesn't make sense. Taking cover allows for a better assessment.
What I don't understand is the need to empty clips. I think this is exactly what the military trains you not to do. I even get a three round burst. But beyond that, fire and assess. If you empty your clip and it didn't stop him, you just disarmed yourself.
What I don't understand is the need to empty clips. I think this is exactly what the military trains you not to do. I even get a three round burst. But beyond that, fire and assess. If you empty your clip and it didn't stop him, you just disarmed yourself.
The Great Zaganza
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What I don't understand is: why go in pursuit at all?
They have the car, so they know who he is. No need for a shootout, just do an APB and stake out the home.
They have the car, so they know who he is. No need for a shootout, just do an APB and stake out the home.
sarge
Penultimate Amazing
How else were they going to be able to shoot him?
Thermal
August Member
Assumes they IDed the driver. Cars get loaned or stolen, and bad guy 101 is to switch tags when commiting a crime. Plus, you want an active shooter running around loose?
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Exactly. Best to shoot him to be sure.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
And if he has the brains not to go home ?