• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS

Status
Not open for further replies.
Upchurch said:
They aren’t writing law, but they aren’t protecting the rights of the people, either.
Click to expand...
Is the "not writing law" also going to apply if the federal government passes a law making abortion legal (with relevant details) in all states and SCOTUS strikes it down?

Or if the right-wing idiots try to make it illegal in all states?

IOW would they write new law the federal gov couldn't tell the states what to do about abortion? On what legal basis do you imagine they would base said decision on?
 
Last edited:
bruto said:
Nonsense. It may well be that economic considerations are important, but very poor people in very poor places often have lots of kids, and not just because they don't know better, and birth rates go down as economies improve. If money is the only thing that makes a difference, I hope for their sake that you have no kids, and pity them if you do.
Click to expand...

Edited by zooterkin: 
<SNIP> for civility.
statistics don't say that women who don't abort to save money, it says that women who abort it is to save money.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stacyhs said:
That has to be one of the most historically ignorant posts I've ever read. "... a medieval peasant could afford to keep pushing out children"? No, they couldn't. They had no choice and many children starved to death or had serious health problems due to severe malnutrition like scurvy, rickets, dental problems, vision problems, goiters, and mental impairment . Most medieval women gave birth many times but they did not have large families because so many children never made it to their first birthday.
Click to expand...
Did you notice the bit in my post where I said lots of those children died? Also, do you have a non-****** article backing up your claim? That is a blog post, by somebody saying they did some research as an undergraduate 46 years ago that indicated nutrition in some parts of the middle ages wasn't great. Was there not an old geocities site you could link to?

Typical numbers for infant mortality would have been something like 20% back then. Children not making it past their first birthday was not a significant barrier to larger families than we have today. The whole thing varies around hugely depending on what period you are talking about. During the black death? During a famine? During the mini-ice age? Very clearly they must have had significantly larger families than we have today, because civilisation survived the middle ages.

Your average medieval family had above replacement rates of children surviving into adulthood. Given that, they were clearly having at least 4 or 5 children per family. So, we go back to the issue that today middle class people are not having children because they can not afford it, but in medieval Europe peasants were having lots of children.

Stacyhs said:
Women had many children because
1) there was no reliable birth control
2) using any form of birth control was against religious teachings and
you'd 'go to hell' if you used it.
3) doctors could not even discuss birth control with their patients
4) getting an abortion was illegal and extremely dangerous
5) husbands had a 'right' to have sex with their wives whether the wives wanted to or not. There was no such thing as 'marital rape'.

Take a few history classes before spreading such nonsense.
Click to expand...
Look, we don't all have access to the rememberings of undergraduates from 46 years ago. Somehow I had missed that guys wordpress blog. Through the midwit haze that your post fogs up the facts with, there is certainly truth that the social environment was different in the middle ages. Your version of it is simplistic, but attitudes to sex, and children, and the "good life" were different. The root difference between then and now in terms of how many children people are having is the society, and it's beliefs and incentives. You list some of the steps that society took that clearly encouraged children in the middle ages, today we incentivise very different behaviours that encourage people to delay having children, or not have them at all. Today we live in a society that prioritises the individual, so even though people aren't going to starve they feel they don't have enough money to have children. In the middle ages peoples lives were much more marginal, but they had lots of children.

Can we knock off the throwing sass at one another, and just talk about the issues in the thread?

Now we've thrown sass at one another, can we just argue about the topic please? I've read plenty of history. Maybe I interpret it differently to you? Any errors I make are not for lack of a general knowledge of the past.
 
Last edited:
Dumb All Over said:
Because the story lacks any credible supporting evidence and is devoid of critical detail. Without further clarity and given the lack of verifiable information, the doctor's story of a 10-year-old's abortion is indistinguishable from a story of utter fantasy.
Click to expand...
What kind of supporting detail would it take to convince you that the story is true?

Such situations *will* come up in states that have outlawed abortion. Why wouldn't they? That's not a rhetorical question. What is the mechanism that would prevent them from happening?
 
Minoosh said:
What kind of supporting detail would it take to convince you that the story is true?

Such situations *will* come up in states that have outlawed abortion. Why wouldn't they? That's not a rhetorical question. What is the mechanism that would prevent them from happening?
Click to expand...

For me to consider whether the story is true or not, I would need answers to the following questions: What is the name of the child abuse doctor in Ohio who contacted Dr. Caitlin Bernard? On what date did this communication occur? Is the child now officially under the care of Dr. Bernard? Who transported the child across state lines to Indiana? Did they have permission from the parents of the child to do so? In what other ways are the parents of this child involved? What are the names of the child's parents? If the child's birthday happened within the last six weeks, then the child was nine years old when impregnated. What is the child's date of birth? What are the circumstances surrounding the impregnation of this nine-year-old? Did it happen in the family home? Were the parents home at the time the nine-year-old was impregnated? Why wasn't the child being properly supervised? Did the parents condone and encourage the impregnation? Who is the father? Is the father a minor? Is the father an adult? Does the father have a criminal background? Is this a case of statutory rape? Was an arrest made? Does the father want the baby to be born and not aborted? How did the Indianapolis Star come upon this story? Was an investigation conducted to determine whether Dr. Bernard's story is true or did the Indianapolis Star just "run with it" without proper vetting?

I am sure there are plenty more questions that need answers, but this is enough for now to get the conversation rolling.
 
That’s a lot of violation of privacy of a child to convince
Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>
Edited for Rule 12
.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Minoosh said:
.... Not even the Bible equates a fetus with a human being. A person who causes a miscarriage is guilty of the Bronze Age equivalent of a CIVIL offense.
Click to expand...

None of this crap is in the Bible. Even Jerry Falwell wasn't on board until he saw a political benefit from going all Pro-Life on the country.

Know what is in the Bible? It's a sin for men to spill their seed on the ground.

Skeptics Annotated Bible: Abortion.
Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23​

The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6​

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

And the LORD said unto Moses, Number all the firstborn of the males of the children of Israel from a month old and upward, and take the number of their names. -- Numbers 3:40​

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17

(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)
Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16​

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14​

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28​

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24​

The Psalmist prays that his enemies are aborted.

Let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun. -- Psalm 58:8​
Click to expand...
 
Dumb All Over said:
Something smells fishy. I don't believe the story.
Click to expand...


The best part about the story is that it is a clickbait headline...with barely anything of detail about that claim. Mostly just a lead in for general complaining about abortion law.
 
Last edited:
Dumb All Over said:
The story is lacking in so many more ways.
Click to expand...

These are the details you demanded:

For me to consider whether the story is true or not, I would need answers to the following questions: What is the name of the child abuse doctor in Ohio who contacted Dr. Caitlin Bernard? On what date did this communication occur? Is the child now officially under the care of Dr. Bernard? Who transported the child across state lines to Indiana? Did they have permission from the parents of the child to do so? In what other ways are the parents of this child involved? What are the names of the child's parents? If the child's birthday happened within the last six weeks, then the child was nine years old when impregnated. What is the child's date of birth? What are the circumstances surrounding the impregnation of this nine-year-old? Did it happen in the family home? Were the parents home at the time the nine-year-old was impregnated? Why wasn't the child being properly supervised? Did the parents condone and encourage the impregnation? Who is the father? Is the father a minor? Is the father an adult? Does the father have a criminal background? Is this a case of statutory rape? Was an arrest made? Does the father want the baby to be born and not aborted? How did the Indianapolis Star come upon this story? Was an investigation conducted to determine whether Dr. Bernard's story is true or did the Indianapolis Star just "run with it" without proper vetting?
Click to expand...

Most, if not all of these are gross violations of privacy because you want the child's name so you
Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>
Edited for Rule 12
can harass her.

The Indy star has greater integrity than you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dumb All Over said:
The story is pure BS.
Click to expand...

Who cares if that one particular story is true? There is absolutely nothing in the story that is impossible, or even implausible. Statistically speaking, **** like this will be happening on a regular basis with millions of people living in states where abortion is illegal or will be made illegal shortly.

"Pro-lifers" have been able to hide behind Roe v. Wade for decades to avoid the real-world implications of banning abortion, but the Ridiculous Six have stripped away their cover. "Pro-lifers" now have to deal with stuff like this, either by saying its fine, or by making abortion exceptions.
 
Random said:
Who cares if that one particular story is true? There is absolutely nothing in the story that is impossible, or even implausible. Statistically speaking, **** like this will be happening on a regular basis with millions of people living in states where abortion is illegal or will be made illegal shortly.
Click to expand...
HEADLINE - Millions of Knocked-Up Nine-Year-Olds Require Abortions!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom