The Jan. 6 Investigation

Status
Not open for further replies.
Upchurch said:
Someone, either the not-Republican candidate or citizens of the state, sue the state to get have the votes counted, it drags on past the conclusion of the election, and the Republican candidate is sworn in. Only later is the law suit resolved, by which time it is too late, I guess?
Click to expand...
Or we do what Drumpf had planned for himself in 2020, Biden stays in power because there are questions about who won in 2024.

Make that a threat and the people attacking democracy are less likely to toss out votes unless Drumpf actually wins.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Dinesh knows the truth.

He tweeted
Click to expand...
After a spurting, inconsistent run of 200-250 years or so, it is with a profound sense of regret that we must announce the closing of the era of objective, verifiable reality superseding sincerely held, fervent, yet erroneous beliefs.
 
Ladewig said:
In the past 6 years, Trump has never gone ten days without emphasizing that facts are irrelevant, subjective, and ignorable. And has taught his followers that argument by loudness is not a logical fallacy, but rather a profound way to recognize the truth. And has literally said that people should ignore what they read and hear and believe only what he says.

Therefore saying that “these facts are now just irrefutable” is meaningless to MAGAtarians.
How can we convince his blind followers that these relevant, objective, undeniable facts prove that Trump’s self-centered actions were unlawful and still are harmful?
Click to expand...

We can't. There is nothing that will ever convince them; they are too emotionally/psychologically invested in their delusions of Trump. People's ability to deny what they don't want to believe never ceases to amaze me.
 
Stacyhs said:
We can't. There is nothing that will ever convince them; they are too emotionally/psychologically invested in their delusions of Trump. People's ability to deny what they don't want to believe never ceases to amaze me.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Even though the facts and evidence that you have been conned are clear, obvious and staring you in the face, it is very hard to admit that... for some people, its impossible. So they double down on their beliefs.

... and this applies to a number of conservative members of this forum.
 
smartcooky said:
Indeed. Even though the facts and evidence that you have been conned are clear, obvious and staring you in the face, it is very hard to admit that... for some people, its impossible. So they double down on their beliefs.

... and this applies to a number of conservative members of this forum.
Click to expand...

I call it Twooferism in Honor of 9/11No Planers long gone from this Forum, like Ace Baker.
 
smartcooky said:
Indeed. Even though the facts and evidence that you have been conned are clear, obvious and staring you in the face, it is very hard to admit that... for some people, its impossible. So they double down on their beliefs.

.
Click to expand...

The bigger problem is that many of them believe violence against the non-Trumpers is the only way to deal with annoying facts.
 
Ladewig said:
The bigger problem is that many of them believe violence against the non-Trumpers is the only way to deal with annoying facts.
Click to expand...

I have talked that would kill me in a second if they thought I wasn't one of them, like the leader of Bikers for Trump.
 
The Fat Orange Turd: "I hope Mike is going to do the right thing"

...and he did!

- He refused to go along with The Fat Orange Turd's illegal, unconstitutional, bat-crap crazy, lunatic scheme.

- He refused to leave the Capitol because he thought the Vice President running away from the danger was a bad look, and he didn't want the angry mob to have that satisfaction.

- He refused to leave because he knew it was his duty to stay and finish carrying out his Constitutional obligation to overturn the peaceful transfer of power.

Does this really make him a hero?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/opinion/letters/mike-pence-jan-6.html

Many Trump ass-kissing Republicans have walked back their criticisms of The Fat Orange Turd that they made in the days after January 6 - Kevin McCarthy, Nikki Haley, Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham. Then there was Rep Andrew Clyde (photographed helping other Congressmen using furniture to barricade the house chamber), who later flip-flopped and said that "Jan. 6 was just a tourist visit", and then The Republican National Committee ridiculously labelled Jan 6 "legitimate political discourse" in their censure of Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for standing up and speaking the truth.

Meanwhile, Pence has continued to say that The Fat Orange Turd was wrong. In a speech to the Federalist Society in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, he said.

"President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. The presidency belongs to the American people, and the American people alone. And frankly there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president"

"And the truth is there's more at stake than our party or political fortunes. Men and women: if we lose faith in the Constitution, we won't just lose elections, we'll lose our country,"​

Nope, Pence is no hero. He was doing his job.

Now, I find it hard to see past his inaction and silence while The Fat Orange Turd autocratically upturned and trampled on every presidential norm for four years, from calling the press "the enemy of the people", though confiscating an official translator's notes of a meeting with a hostile foreign leader, to blackmailing a friendly foreign leader to get political dirt on his own opponents. However, I of all people understand that different people have different breaking points.

It is now apparent just how close the USA came to the end of its democracy. Pence was the only real individual with any power that stood between your continuing Democracy and the massive civil unrest that could have resulted in the USA being under Authoritarian governance for the first time in 246 years.... but at the critical juncture, even after The Fat Orange Turd whipped his MAGA morons into a murderous frenzy to pressure him into overturning the election, Pence was unwavering and made the correct decisions.

We should at least give him some credit for this.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Or we do what Drumpf had planned for himself in 2020, Biden stays in power because there are questions about who won in 2024.

Make that a threat and the people attacking democracy are less likely to toss out votes unless Drumpf actually wins.
Click to expand...

If only. The sheer shamelessness of their positions should not be underestimated. To borrow from an ex-Republican -

Here is the Republican message on everything of importance:
1. They can tell people what to do.
2. You cannot tell them what to do.

This often gets mistaken for hypocrisy, there’s an additional layer of complexity to this (later in the thread), but this is the basic formula.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
"Here is the Republican message on everything of importance:
1. They can tell people what to do.
2. You cannot tell them what to do."


That pretty much sums it up. But, I'd add: Be afraid. Be very afraid.
 
Ukrainian President Zelensky and Rep. Liz Cheney named JFK 'Profile in Courage' award recipients for 'defending democracy'.

Cheney and I don't agree on basically anything when it comes to politics but she has more cajones than the rest of the GOP senate together.
 
smartcooky said:
...and he did!



- He refused to go along with The Fat Orange Turd's illegal, unconstitutional, bat-crap crazy, lunatic scheme.



- He refused to leave the Capitol because he thought the Vice President running away from the danger was a bad look, and he didn't want the angry mob to have that satisfaction.



- He refused to leave because he knew it was his duty to stay and finish carrying out his Constitutional obligation to overturn the peaceful transfer of power.



Does this really make him a hero?



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/opinion/letters/mike-pence-jan-6.html



Many Trump ass-kissing Republicans have walked back their criticisms of The Fat Orange Turd that they made in the days after January 6 - Kevin McCarthy, Nikki Haley, Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham. Then there was Rep Andrew Clyde (photographed helping other Congressmen using furniture to barricade the house chamber), who later flip-flopped and said that "Jan. 6 was just a tourist visit", and then The Republican National Committee ridiculously labelled Jan 6 "legitimate political discourse" in their censure of Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for standing up and speaking the truth.



Meanwhile, Pence has continued to say that The Fat Orange Turd was wrong. In a speech to the Federalist Society in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, he said.



"President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. The presidency belongs to the American people, and the American people alone. And frankly there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president"



"And the truth is there's more at stake than our party or political fortunes. Men and women: if we lose faith in the Constitution, we won't just lose elections, we'll lose our country,"​



Nope, Pence is no hero. He was doing his job.



Now, I find it hard to see past his inaction and silence while The Fat Orange Turd autocratically upturned and trampled on every presidential norm for four years, from calling the press "the enemy of the people", though confiscating an official translator's notes of a meeting with a hostile foreign leader, to blackmailing a friendly foreign leader to get political dirt on his own opponents. However, I of all people understand that different people have different breaking points.



It is now apparent just how close the USA came to the end of its democracy. Pence was the only real individual with any power that stood between your continuing Democracy and the massive civil unrest that could have resulted in the USA being under Authoritarian governance for the first time in 246 years.... but at the critical juncture, even after The Fat Orange Turd whipped his MAGA morons into a murderous frenzy to pressure him into overturning the election, Pence was unwavering and made the correct decisions.



We should at least give him some credit for this.
Click to expand...
Heroic? No.

Brave, yes, in a bare-bones way.

If I had to pick a single word, "redeeming." Though I'd want to qualify it heavily with appending "marginally" in front of it.

What he did by staying (and if I recall, his detail wanted to extract him from the capitol) was not a small or insignificant thing. But again, while it was critically important to the country, it has little impact on rehabilitating the man.
 
Last edited:
Stacyhs said:
Ukrainian President Zelensky and Rep. Liz Cheney named JFK 'Profile in Courage' award recipients for 'defending democracy'.

Cheney and I don't agree on basically anything when it comes to politics but she has more cajones than the rest of the GOP senate together.
Click to expand...

She is only doing what any normal and decent person should be doing. Nor surprisingly, this rules out 99% of the GOP.
 
FWIW, Judge Luttig spoke out a bit about his delivery on Twitter. Not going to quote it here because I don't see much reason to do so. Really short summation - he claims that he wanted it to be, in short, clear and memorable.
 
Last edited:
shemp said:
She is only doing what any normal and decent person should be doing. Nor surprisingly, this rules out 99% of the GOP.
Click to expand...

I disagree. There are many things that "any normal and decent person should" do, yet they don't. When someone does something that "any normal and decent person should" do that results in the personal loss of their own career and ostracism among their peers, it takes courage that most people don't have. As you pointed out, 99% of the GOP in Congress don't have it.
 
Sen. Adam Kinzinger:

"Unfortunately, my party has utterly failed the American people at truth. It makes me sad, but it's a fact," he said.

In an interview with ABC's "This Week," when asked if he thinks Trump should be prosecuted, Kinzinger told host George Stephanopoulos, "I certainly think the president is guilty of knowing what he did, seditious conspiracy, being involved in these, you know, kind of different segments of pressuring the DOJ, vice president, et cetera."

"The president absolutely tried to overthrow the will of the people and he tried to do it initially through misinformation, through the Department of Justice, through pressuring the Vice President, and then on January 6," he said last week on CBS's "Face the Nation."

"Obviously, you know, we're not a criminal charges committee. So I want to be careful and specifically using that language," Kinzinger said Sunday. "But I think what we're presenting before the American people certainly would rise to a level of criminal involvement by a president and definitely failure of the oath has to matter here, your personal demand to stand for the Constitution has to matter."
Click to expand...
https://www.insider.com/adam-kinzinger-my-party-failed-the-american-people-at-truth-2022-6

:bigclap
 
bruto said:
I kind of favor the simplification of Frank Wilhoit:

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:

There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Click to expand...

That about sums it up.:thumbsup:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom