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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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dudalb said:
Being ex US Army, I think the cops pretty much deserted in the face of enemy action, and that is one of the most contemtible things a soldier can do. The penalaties for it are among the most severe in the Uniform Code Of Military Justice..the laws you live by in the US military.
Thjey are lucky that the worst that can happen to them is they will be fired.
And if they were not trained for a dangerous situation, then it is one incredibly incompenent police department.
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Uvalde chief of police Pedro "Pete" Arredondo made the decision not to breach the classroom.

npr published an article, Here's what experts say police should have done in the Uvalde school shooting.

Gist (I paraphrase): confront the active shooter immediately.

Quotes from the npr article:

"The protocol is, as soon as you determine there is an active shooter you don't wait for anyone," says Steve Ijames, an expert who has led training sessions on active-shooter situations for police agencies since the mid-1990s.
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and...

Texas embraces widely accepted doctrine about dealing with an active shooter, (Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steve) McCraw said.

"That doctrine requires officers — we don't care what agency you're from, you don't have to have a leader on the scene — every officer lines up, stacks up, goes and finds where those rounds are being fired at, and keeps shooting until the subject is dead. Period," he said.
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Lukraak_Sisser said:
I pity the society where that is needed.
I truly do.

I've never heard of that need on the schools here in the Netherlands, not the one I teach at now nor any of those I've ever been to in the past decades.
A school should not be a fortress or a prison.
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You live in a country that happily isn't butt deep in a gun loving culture like the US is. It's so deeply ingrained in some people here that they'd sooner thousands and thousands of people die every year from guns than live without them.:mad:
 
Lurch said:
I really wonder just how bad it has to get before a national awakening occurs.
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That point doesn't exist.

JoeMorgue said:
Yeah make the building have few exits and more chokepoints. Brilliant.
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Stacyhs said:
It MUST be reinforced to schools to ALWAYS have those door closed and locked no matter how inconvenient they are at times.
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It's times like these that me a little more accepting of our terrible standard of living compared to America.

Our schools don't even have gates, far less doors.
 
Armitage72 said:
Here in the US there's this thing called the "school-to-prison pipeline". Making the schools look and feel like prisons makes the transition easier.
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The first (and several subsequent) times I've had the pleasure of being taken to processing, the similarities freaked me the **** out.

Same cinder block walls with the same Kilz (slightly discolored) white paint, the thick wood fire doors with narrow vertical windows, the fixtures, sitting in a little room waiting for counsel, err, the school counselor...
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Condemning calls for "more gun control," Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) wonders aloud whether "fatherlessness" and "the breakdown of families" are to blame for mass shootings.

Video in link

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1529528614550745089
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At 0:20 he asks why is our culture producing so many young men who wanna murder innocent people.

We finally got the answer, from which Shuttit so cowardly ran away from: American Culture means (among other things): Producing murderous psychopaths. No I get it: He just wants those immigrants to be safe from the murderer producing culture of the USA. What a hero.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump: Classroom doors should be hardened to make them lockable from the inside

Video in link.
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1530311024103985152

Did anyone tell him this door was locked from the inside?
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The gallop to find a scapegoat continues. Some teacher, perhaps one who was murdered, is probably going to get blamed for not locking down fast enough. Meanwhile coward cops stood around for nearly an hour listening to the sporadic gunfire of the uniterrupted killer and the desperate screams of parents.

End result is we're going to pretend reinventing the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory is some solution for school security and the coward PD will probably get more money.
 
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Bob001 said:
If that happened, it's likely because students were so stunned as to be paralyzed. It's not something they ever imagined happening. But cops are extensively trained, and they rehearse exactly these scenarios. It's not unreasonable to expect them to act, especially when there are 19 of them with rifles and body armor acting together.
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So why didn't they? Again, group dynamics are complicated and weird. It's not even clear to me that having 19 people would mean someone is more likely to break ranks than if three people were in attendance.

This has been talked about before with riots. Few individuals will be the first to throw a brick through a window. Most of us are too self-inhibited. However, if someone else does it, and the crowd cheers, others will be more likely to play along. Monkey-see, monkey-do.

Also, all this crap about what cops are trained to do. You can supposedly be trained to do one thing when there's a deeper message underneath it all, and I don't mean Daniel Laruso learning karate via yardwork. Police probably select for and reinforce respect for hierarchy and following orders.
 
Stacyhs said:
You live in a country that happily isn't butt deep in a gun loving culture like the US is. It's so deeply ingrained in some people here that they'd sooner thousands and thousands of people die every year from guns than live without them.:mad:
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If you want a total ban on all forms of gun, forget it. Alot of people who would ban or severly limit assualt weapons see no great problem with an bolt action Deer rifle.
In fact, the Let;s ban all guns period people are a gift to the NEA.
 
Apparently the shooter ran out of the room firing at the cops before he was taken down.
Looks like a classic "Suicide By Cop" situation.
 
Armitage72 said:
Here in the US there's this thing called the "school-to-prison pipeline". Making the schools look and feel like prisons makes the transition easier.
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And that pipeline is directly connected to chronic incarceration of very young black kids while white kids would get nothing more than school action.

So for example a black kid in elementary school would be arrested while a white kid who did the same thing might have their parent called.



BTW, the latest word from the guy charged today with explaining why the police didn't go in is still lying claiming they didn't know kids were still being killed. Sad, and very hard to listen to. Nothing can be done, it's too late, and it's really really hard to listen to the excuses the cops had and still are making.
 
dudalb said:
If you want a total ban on all forms of gun, forget it. Alot of people who would ban or severly limit assualt weapons see no great problem with an bolt action Deer rifle.
In fact, the Let;s ban all guns period people are a gift to the NEA.
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I'm not one of those. Certain people/occupations need to have a gun/rifle. For example, ranchers who need to protect their animals, people who live in areas nwith dangerous animals like bears, most hunters (although I abhor hunting with a passion, I realize hunting needs to be done for the overall good of the herd, etc). But NO civilian needs an assault/assault style rifle. No one needs to have a damn arsenal in their home (like my BIL).
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
And that pipeline is directly connected to chronic incarceration of very young black kids while white kids would get nothing more than school action.



So for example a black kid in elementary school would be arrested while a white kid who did the same thing might have their parent called.







BTW, the latest word from the guy charged today with explaining why the police didn't go in is still lying claiming they didn't know kids were still being killed. Sad, and very hard to listen to. Nothing can be done, it's too late, and it's really really hard to listen to the excuses the cops had and still are making.
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Worth remembering that cops are prolific liars all the time, this one is only different because there is far more media scrutiny and skepticism than usual. The norm is for these lies to be accepted and repeated without much questioning.
 
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