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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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Stellafane said:
What a mindlessly stupid thing to say. So stupid in fact that if I had nothing better to offer in support of my position, my own self-respect would force me to reconsider it. It doesn't take an "internet tough guy" to question why, among all the initial police responders present, not one could summon the courage to place the lives of helpless little children over their own safety -- the very thing they were trained to do as part of their jobs. Not one with even a fraction of the bravery shown by unarmed, untrained teachers and students in similar situations.
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Warp12 said:
Spare me the "helpless little children" pity party. There is a protocol. The discussion was about the cops "standing around" for 40 minutes. Clearly for much of that time they were under orders to do just that.
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No, it's not "protocol". it was failure by the commander to do the thing every cop knows to do.

The discussion was about the cops "standing around" for 40 minutes. Clearly for much of that time they were under orders to do just that.
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Is it alright, King of Kings, if others are allowed to talk about what they want to talk about?

The real mindlessly stupid part is these keyboard warriors characterizing all of these cops "cowards".
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There you go again with the keyboard warriors thing. And that's not the subject of the thread either.

Also extra stupid bonus points for implying they should disobey orders and play hero. It is straight out of an action movie. But that is some people's reality.
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Well, actually one question now is whether the failure of police command to do the right thing represents a break down of the system.

Please don't tell me that's not the subject of the thread.

If you don't want to talk about it just say so.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 347 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
They had a SWAT Team and they got 40% of the entire towns budget.

If they didn't what were they there for?
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So the local police has a SWAT, but for their safety, they waited for the Border SWAT?!
 
Warp12 said:
Spare me the "helpless little children" pity party. There is a protocol. The discussion was about the cops "standing around" for 40 minutes. Clearly for much of that time they were under orders to do just that.

The real mindlessly stupid part is these keyboard warriors characterizing all of these cops "cowards". Also extra stupid bonus points for implying they should disobey orders and play hero. It is straight out of an action movie. But that is some people's reality.
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Well, here's a little reality, one that you seem to want to avoid. Because whether you like to admit it or not, the core reality here is the fate of the helpless little children you prefer not to think about. And with every shot the police heard and did nothing about in the name of "protocol," another child's body was getting ripped to pieces, such that in many cases they were no longer recognizable. Jesus Christ, what the hell is "protocol" compared with that? If "protocol" really called for doing nothing while children are getting massacred, then it's a protocol that under those circumstance should have been ignored.

Your impotent ranting about imaginary "keyboard warriors" notwithstanding, people have every right to ask why the response took so long, and wasn't more effective.
 
Warp12 said:
And remember, always save your game beforehand.

"Leeeroy Jennnkiiiinsssss!!"
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That is the agreed best protocol.

He was in a room with two entrances, there was a platoon of cops. Was it beyond wit or wisdom to take both entrances, distract him and split his fire?
You only need two cops to do that!
 
Cain said:
Group dynamics are a strange thing. People questioned why college students at Virginia Tech sat still while the killer patiently put a bullet in the head of one person after another. I'd like to think I'd rush into Robb Elementary, take down the rampager, and evenly say, "Class is dismissed." Such fantasies are widespread. After Parkland, Trump claimed he would have stormed the building unarmed.
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If that happened, it's likely because students were so stunned as to be paralyzed. It's not something they ever imagined happening. But cops are extensively trained, and they rehearse exactly these scenarios. It's not unreasonable to expect them to act, especially when there are 19 of them with rifles and body armor acting together.
 
In today's press conference the police claimed that they didn't storm the classroom right away because the shooting had stopped and they didn't feel like they were facing an active shooter situation anymore.

Hint #1: When the shooting stops, bleeding does not stop.

Hint #2: Hint #1 was the single largest largest take away from Columbine. Get in there, get medical aide in there. That will reduce the death toll.

To compound matters, the town's leadership still seems to be trying to manage this in their own defense. Still won't admit to the least mistake, still changing the story every five seconds.

It's funny - when police question suspects, they often claim that the suspect making changes to his story is a sign of guilt. Perhaps Uvalde police need a mirror.
 
JoeMorgue said:
A weird point of data.

I'm been a "gun guy" just long enough to remember how hated and much of a joke the M-16/AR-15 rifles used to be. Like the hard core gun nuts of the 80s haaaaated them with a passion, completely dismissed the .223 caliber as nothing but a souped up varmint round, called them toys and spread the UL that they were literally made by Mattel, hated the fact that they were largely made of plastic, and there was a lot of pushback against the idea that the guns were designed to wound rather than to kill.

No real point just weird that they are now THE "gunniest gun gun for gun people who loves guns."
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I grew up next to a gun guy. He shot black powder and had the tools to make his own bullets, although I never saw him do that last one. He had a small cannon that he would fire of at midnight on new years, sans ball. He also taught astronomy and Egyptology at the local college. His house was filled with just most utterly amazing stuff. After he and his wife died, I inherited one of his telescopes and a sword from them.

I look at current gun culture as being about as genuine and sincere as gun culture probably feels about Hollywood.

As for this situation, I think I favor the strict Constitutionalist's view. The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed and those arms should be exactly what the Framers understood "arms" to be at the time the Constitution was written: bladed weapons, blunt weapons, and muzzle-loading black-powder firearms. Possibly cannons for the state militias or simple bows and arrows, if you're looking for a challenge.
 
A reporter today is saying that Uvalde school system had its own small police department unconnected to local police, and there is some question about who was receiving the 911 calls and whether they were routed properly.
 
Looks like a few cops had endured all they were willing to endure when they were "grazed by bullets".

At 11:33 a.m., soon after the gunman entered the school through a door that had been propped open, he entered two classrooms and fired at least 100 rounds, McCraw said. Within a few minutes, seven Uvalde police officers were inside the school, and two were grazed by bullets, McCraw said.

A tactical team from Customs and Border Protection was on scene at 12:15 p.m., but did not breach the classroom until 12:50 p.m. -- after a janitor provided keys to unlock the door, McCraw said.
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The article has a pretty detailed timeline. The more that comes out, the more useless the cops appear to have been. Some taking active steps to stop others from confronting the shooter. Kids had called several times over that time, so they knew there were living children inside basically waiting to be found and killed. They did nothing.

ETA: The article has a list of identified victims with some ages.
 
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