• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

Status
Not open for further replies.
With each and every fact coming out, it gets worse and worse.

Untrue. The 'facts' are not the understandable but unproven claims of scared parents in the parking lot. What was a 'fact' yesterday or earlier today is not found to be a 'fact' by this afternoon.
Active shooter enters full elementary school. There is zero time from that second on to philosophize in the parking lot. It is time to engage.

No one was "philosophizing" in the parking lot. It's called assessing the situation. You sound like the typical armchair whatever: pronouncing what "should have happened" even though we don't know what "did" happen yet.
How am I so sure? 20 body bags are a convincing argument. There is no counter argument except widdle powiceman was ascared.

What a silly thing to say. It's obvious you have a beef with police in general and are projecting that onto this for your own satisfaction.
 
Untrue. The 'facts' are not the understandable but unproven claims of scared parents in the parking lot. What was a 'fact' yesterday or earlier today is not found to be a 'fact' by this afternoon.


No one was "philosophizing" in the parking lot. It's called assessing the situation. You sound like the typical armchair whatever: pronouncing what "should have happened" even though we don't know what "did" happen yet.


What a silly thing to say. It's obvious you have a beef with police in general and are projecting that onto this for your own satisfaction.

Repeating this silly mantra does not help you at all.
 
Well, regarding weapons and gun control, the USA is royally ******. Try to change laws? People will stockpile weapons until the new law is in action. The new law is in action and you can't buy a gun anymore? Your neighbour Cletus has about 100 AR-15s buried in his backyard, just ask him.

Too heavy a hand on gun control will bring consequences that will make Sandy Hook, the Buffalo grocery store and Uvaldea look like a day at the beach.

I am telling you don't send any troopers up the holler to get Cletus's guns.

---------
Dope Clock II: It's been 346 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
I agree there seems to have been a lot of incompetence shown, but I suggest the cops just going in with guns blazing might have gotten more people killed.
This is why "forced entry" is reserved to specific units who are extensively treained for it, on a level you simply don't have the resources or time to train every officer in.


You mean it might have got one of them shot or killed?



Again, the lessons from Columbine and subsequent school shootings is that the cops need to go in as quickly as possible.

This murderer didn't need a semi automatic, the murderer could have been using a spear we would have had the same result since the cops gave him 40 minutes to do what he wanted.
The cops have no issue with using force, except when it would put them at risk.
 
What was a 'fact' yesterday or earlier today is not found to be a 'fact' by this afternoon.
Yeah that's kind of the problem.

We know the exact price the killer paid for his gun, and how many rounds he purchased.
We know what he said in private Facebook messages just prior.
We know an EMT only found out their daughter died when treating her best friend.

But what the cops did or did not do? Who the hell knows! The facts get changed every damn time they make a public statement. It's culpability musical chairs! Round and round the blame goes, where it stops only an internal investigation finding no evidence of wrongdoing can know!
 
Too heavy a hand on gun control will bring consequences that will make Sandy Hook, the Buffalo grocery store and Uvaldea look like a day at the beach.

I am telling you don't send any troopers up the holler to get Cletus's guns.

---------
Dope Clock II: It's been 346 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

Sorry, English is not my first language and occasionally I fail to understand the post. Yours is one of them.

Just to clarify: I am saying that in a country that has been chock full of easily available weapons for the last few hundred years, controlling or even removing most of them is impossible.
 
I have few suggestions:

Stop the "This is the only/best solution" argument. Accept that multiple responses to the problem might work well in tandem. Improved mental health services. Sensible gun control. Increased security at public places. Something else?
Don't expect a single response/solution to answer the problem. Expecting so is a good way to do nothing. All we have to do is poke holes in the other guy's solution. . .it gets thrown in the trash and we do nothing.

No solution is going to work in every case. People and situations are different. The idea that plan B wouldn't have stopped person C is often a phony argument.

Don't use the situation to settle old scores. You hate cops? Despise liberals? Don't like guns? Get over it. Hate Hillary? Think Trump should have been removed from office? Nobody cares.

Don't forget there are things you can do at a personal, family and community level.

It's going to take money, time and hard work to solve this.

---------
Dope Clock II: It's been 346 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

You forget that this is America, and America is "special".

Many Americans will tell you things that work in other countries will not work in America, because America is "special"

America is a country in which only one solution is allowed to be examined at a time and it if it is not a bona fide, guaranteed 100% solution to a problem, then it is not considered a solution at all... that is how "special" America is. The very idea that a solution could be in five or six parts, each dealing with a different part of a problem, is foreign to them, and therefore, being foreign, cannot possibly work in "special" America.

Here is an example of how this works...

1. Limit magazine capacities
Not a solution because some people will find a way around it; Solution not 100% therefore rejected

2. Outlaw bump stocks
Not a solution because some people can fire almost as quickly without a bump stock: Solution not 100% therefore rejected

3. Background checks
Not a solution because some people will find a way around them; Solution not 100% therefore rejected

4. Make assault rifles illegal
Not a solution because people disagree what an assault rifle is; Solution not 100% therefore rejected

5. Define what an assault rifle is and make them illegal

Not a solution because someone could bring one in from Mexico or Canada; Solution not 100% therefore rejected

6. Require licencing to own firearms
Not a solution because licencing is an infringement of rights. a.k.a as the "bbbbut muh guns" objection; Solution not 100% therefore rejected

The idea that each of these ideas might address, say 5 - 10% of the problem, and that together they might address half the problem, does not even occur to the peanut-sized brains of some Americans.

PS: Someone will be along soon to tell me that I "hate America" or ask me why I do, simply because I have pointed out a few home truths.
 
Last edited:
CNN has published and says it has authenticated a video that shows, for a few brief moments, the shooter running toward the school. I've found the area of the school he was running toward on streetview, and it looks like my earlier observation about the school is irrelevant. Most of the classrooms in the school are indeed the outdoor-facing type, but it appears the shooter entered a particular block of rooms at the northwest corner of the building which is attached to the gymnasium and does have a single internal hallway after all.

CNN video

Roughly the perspective of the camera

The majority of the school's classrooms still being external, though, means that the idea of sealing off all but "one door" of this school is still a physical impossibility.
 
Last edited:
Why didn't any of the teachers at that school have a gun? Not even one of them was armed. Why didn't the school have a security officer on duty? This is a large elementary school with over 700 students. You'd think that would have qualified for having a security guard on the school grounds.

Why doesn't Texas have a red flag law? Florida, a solidly Republican state, has a strong red flag law, passed by the GOP-controlled legislature and signed the by the GOP governor. So why doesn't Texas have one?

When I went to school in Israel, anytime we went on a field trip, one of the **teachers** brought a rifle. Every school had a security guard who controlled access to the school.
 
Too heavy a hand on gun control will bring consequences that will make Sandy Hook, the Buffalo grocery store and Uvaldea look like a day at the beach.

I am telling you don't send any troopers up the holler to get Cletus's guns

Sorry, English is not my first language and occasionally I fail to understand the post. Yours is one of them.

Just to clarify: I am saying that in a country that has been chock full of easily available weapons for the last few hundred years, controlling or even removing most of them is impossible.

English? Hell, Tain't mine neither.

Guns break. They get rust on them at an alarming rate. Useable heavily used guns from 30, 40 years ago are rare. Sure there are old 1911's and M1s. But they have been in safes and stored by people who aren't the problem.

---------
Dope Clock II: It's been 346 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
Why didn't any of the teachers at that school have a gun? Not even one of them was armed. Why didn't the school have a security officer on duty? This is a large elementary school with over 700 students. You'd think that would have qualified for having a security guard on the school grounds.

Why doesn't Texas have a red flag law? Florida, a solidly Republican state, has a strong red flag law, passed by the GOP-controlled legislature and signed the by the GOP governor. So why doesn't Texas have one?

When I went to school in Israel, anytime we went on a field trip, one of the **teachers** brought a rifle. Every school had a security guard who controlled access to the school.

There was an armed policeman present at the school. Not just a "security guard", an actual cop.
 
Of course in most professions we have the good people trying to get rid of the bad people instead of lying for them and covering up for them. But you have to expect that with cops.

You didn't answer my question: who would you want to respond if you had someone breaking into your house?

Yeah, they're all a bunch of corrupt, lying, cowardly asses. Every single one of them! :rolleyes: Look at these jerks:

MOIRA SMITH, NYPD
Smith was the only female officer among the 23 NYPD cops who died on 9/11. She led countless injured people from the twin towers. But, in the end, died with so many other heroes in the effort to rescue more.

Sheriff's Deputy Sgt. Barbara Fenley died Thursday night while trying to save others from one of the many wildfires sweeping through the central and western parts of Texas, the sheriff's office said Friday.

Police officer Eric Mumaw "died while trying to rescue a suicidal woman from falling into a river."

Aaron Salter
Retired Buffalo police officer who confronted supermarket gunman hailed as 'true hero'

Five Phoenix police officers were shot and injured, and a woman was shot and killed during an early morning barricade situation, the department said.When an officer approached to help, the suspect, an adult man, invited the officer inside, said Phoenix police spokesman Andy Williams.

As the officer approached the door, "the suspect ambushed him with a gun and shot him several times," Williams said. "That officer was able to get back and get away to safety."

Off. Jesse Mattson:
"Within a matter of moments, the life of a Tampa police officer – a 16-year veteran of the force and U.S. Marine Corps veteran – was cut short in a wrong-way crash, and investigators believe he purposely veered into the oncoming vehicle to save others." "...a seven-time recipient of the Tampa Police Department's Life-Saving Award."
 
English? Hell, Tain't mine neither.

Guns break. They get rust on them at an alarming rate. Useable heavily used guns from 30, 40 years ago are rare. Sure there are old 1911's and M1s. But they have been in safes and stored by people who aren't the problem.

Ok, I get your point. Was under the impression that storing guns is easy, if you pack them in some bags or crates.

I don't want to be one of the "Nothing can be done" guys, I read SmartCooky's list above and totally agree that all these things are worth implementing but for now I still hold on to my point that any change to any law will be "telegraphed" and thus leads to panic buying and hoarding.
 
CNN says there wasn't.

Glad I didn't have to grow up in todays school system

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-thursday/index.html


The Uvalde school district had a safety plan that included its own police force, social media monitoring and a threat reporting system to "provide a safe and secure environment" for students.

The two-page document on the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District website lists 21 different measures it says it has undertaken for the safety of the school community, ranging from an app for reporting bullying to physical security measures like fencing and a buzz-in door system. It's not clear to what degree the plan was developed with active shooters in mind.

Records show the district spent about $200,000 on security and monitoring services in 2017-18 and that figure rose to more than $450,000 in the 2019-20 school year.

Uvalde school district had detailed security plan in place at time of elementary school massacre

The district employed four police officers, including a chief, detective, and two
officers. The district also had additional security staff "who patrol door entrances, parking lots and perimeters of the campuses."

The plan included a "threat reporting system" for "students, parents, staff, and community members" to share information that is deemed "troubling," which could include information "about weapons, threats, fights, drugs, self- harm, suicide or disclosures made that are concerning." The policy states reports could be made through the district site or to a district staff member.

The security plan also refers to lockdown drills. "Students receive training on the Standard Response Protocol for lockout, lockdown, evacuate, shelter, and hold. In addition, drills are held for each of these emergency actions on a regular basis."

We had Earthquake drills when I was in school.

"What a country!!!"
- Yakov Smirnoff
 
Last edited:
If that were truly the case why are police a 19th century invention? Clearly there was no civilization before then.

You need to take a few courses history.

The police force , in one form or another, developed out of a need for enforcing law and maintaining the peace. In England as early as the 13th century, there were constables charged with that duty.
 
The media loves to have something 'new' to talk about especially in this era of 24/7 news; the more sensational, the more controversial, the better. Who did it and why has been pretty much answered so they need a new topic which is questioning aka criticizing the police response before we have all the info.

So where was all the media criticism of the police response during the Buffalo supermarket attack, if as you say the media is driven to find "new topics" after the who and why is known? Those questions were answered within a day in that case as well, so what happened there?

The media isn't "inventing" problems with the police response to this shooting for spectacle. The media is responding to consistent statements and complaints by witnesses, mostly the parents of victims, about the police response. They (the parents) are incredibly upset, as someone with empathy might expect, and they are raising concerns. It's hard to deny that the relevant public's attitude toward the authorities in this particular shooting is vastly different compared to other mass shootings.
 
Once again, you're proudly standing on your soapbox spouting insults from ignorance. Stop embarrassing yourself.

And you are excusing the inexcusable.

You mentioned a 9/11 responder in an earlier post. Yes, a brave and honourable officer. Exactly the opposite of the cops here.

And before you say “yes another cop hater” I worked for an Australian police force for 10 years and my son-in-law is a cop.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom