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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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Armitage72 said:
Something I saw on another forum:

"It's hard to shake the feeling that all this discussion on what schools should do is pretty much the same as saying she shouldn't have been dressed that way."
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"This slutty, multiple doors having school had it coming"
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
They pissed around outside waiting for the big boys to arrive and sort it out for them.
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I had no idea you were privy to all the information yet including the police interviews, all the available videos, surviving victims' statements, etc. But thanks for your report.
 
Personal pet peeve in these situations.

I really hate the people who say, "We shouldn't make this about politics", when people actually say we ought to do something.


Another personal pet peeve: That we have "these situations".
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Why does such a small town have 40 Officers?

Is that normal?

Here in Guisborough (population 17,000) we have an office open from 9 am to 5.30 pm with a civilian enquiries desk.
A van with a couple of officers will sit on the Market Place on Friday and Saturday nights and there is a foot patrol on market days.
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Perhaps because most people there aren't trigger-happy drug-crazed killers who ain't afraid to die?
 
crescent said:
Apparently one of the things they were doing during the delay was finding a hostage negotiator.
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So far, I haven't seen any indication that the shooter was actually communicating during this, other than by firing a weapon. In other words, was he "negotiating"?

If he told cops, somehow, "I've got live kids in here and I'll kill them unless....", then the cops' behavior might make sense.

So far, I haven't heard anything about anything like that.

One thing I haven't heard anything about at all, really, is what the guy in charge believed was going on in that room. I say "guy in charge" instead of "the cops", because I'm sure that someone set up some sort of command structure, and most of the cops who were "just sitting around" had been told to "just sit around", (i.e. to guard perimeters or whatever generall not active thing they had been told.) Sooner or later, I'm betting that there was a decision maker on site, and he's the one responsible for whatever happened.
 
shemp said:
Perhaps because most people there aren't trigger-happy drug-crazed killers who ain't afraid to die?
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I saw the local 'armed response' car once. It was attending a crash on the Trunk Road between Redcar and Middlesbrough.
Not because there was any need for guns but because they happened to be the closest car when it was called in.
It was strange to see cops with pistols on their belts.
 
dudalb said:
The signs are the situation was mishandled, and a number of the cops on the scene seem not to have done what they should have done, but to use his as a blanket condmenation of police in America is a bitmuch.
And I am still wondering what specific Supreme Court ruling they are talking about
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I'm guessing Winnebago and Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
and yet they stood around outside and did nothing apart from handcuff a parent it now seems.

Not one of the 40 officers in the force was man (or woman) enough to go in and try to stop it.
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Do you know what other officers were doing inside the school? Would you have preferred the officers outside just let the parents all rush into the school where a nutcase with a gun was shooting ? Until we know exactly what happened, I suggest you and others give your extremely biased 'observations' a rest.
 
Stacyhs said:
Do you know what other officers were doing inside the school? Would you have preferred the officers outside just let the parents all rush into the school where a nutcase with a gun was shooting ? Until we know exactly what happened, I suggest you and others give your extremely biased 'observations' a rest.
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If there were any inside the school they weren't doing anything about the murderer.
There was an officer there when it started he should have acted. What did the first officers on the scene do? did they go in? Did they confront the murderer?
That it took 40 minutes to stop him and the lack of anything from the cops to say they did anything seems to tell me they did nothing.
If there had been something done before the 40 minutes of pissing their pants then they would have been shouting loud about it.
 
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Meadmaker said:
I really hate the people who say, "We shouldn't make this about politics", when people actually say we ought to do something.
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The flip side of that is that I hate when people only rant about things when they see a hot opportunity to make it political, but are quiet as a church mouse and apathetic about similar issues at other times.

Unfortunate about these kids and all, but like 275 kids were shot in one famous city alone, last year.
 
Stacyhs said:
I had no idea you were privy to all the information yet including the police interviews, all the available videos, surviving victims' statements, etc. But thanks for your report.
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People aren't reacting to rumors, or statements taken out of context. Most of the details that people are so upset about were delivered or confirmed by official police spokespersons at press conferences that were televised live for all to see.
 
Warp12 said:
The flip side of that is that I hate when people only rant about things when they see a hot opportunity to make it political, but are quiet as a church mouse and apathetic about similar issues at other times.
Unfortunate about these kids and all, but like 275 kids were shot in one famous city alone, last year.
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Dogwhistle for "Ya'll silent as church mouses when those black people shoot someone!!!"
 
Warp12 said:
The flip side of that is that I hate when people only rant about things when they see a hot opportunity to make it political, but are quiet as a church mouse and apathetic about similar issues at other times.

Unfortunate about these kids and all, but like 275 kids were shot in one famous city alone, last year.
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And I am confident that, in fact, we all want gun control every time one of those shootings comes up, too.

Yes, it really sucks that in the United States, five people shot isn't enough to make the front page. That sucks a lot. Maybe if we had gun laws that weren't so stupid, five people shot might make the front page.

In short, give it a rest. It's just deflection. What you are actually seeing is a lot of people saying, "See I told you so", because we say it again and again and again all the time when people get shot, but it takes 19 dead ten year olds to cause the cries to get loud enough for people like you to respond, and your response is, "We shouldn't make this political."

Yes, we should. Now would be a very good time to make this political.


To be fair, I think Joe Biden jumped the gun a little bit (no pun intended). I think, in his position, he should have made a bland, pointless, statement about "thoughts and prayers", and said "I will have a lot more to say about this next week." But that's really about tactics, not substance. I would hope he makes it very political, very soon.

And Beto O'Rourke probably shouldn't have done what he did, either. He should have set up a microphone outside. He was displaying bad manners.

Of course, if we are into comparisons of what's worse, Beto was doing "bad manners", while the guy he was interrupting was making excuses for dead kids, so maybe Beto wasn't the worst one in the room.
 
Stacyhs said:
Do you know what other officers were doing inside the school? Would you have preferred the officers outside just let the parents all rush into the school where a nutcase with a gun was shooting ?
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Of course not. A half dozen should have followed Ramos right through that door and continued engaging till Ramos breathed no more. Then they could all high five and sit around the parking lot doing crowd control and smoking cigarettes with only one fatality, God willing.

Until we know exactly what happened, I suggest you and others give your extremely biased 'observations' a rest.
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Wanna bet the final version of facts is much, much worse for the brave officers reputations?
 
I strongly disagree with the blanket condemnation of the police that is going on here but there are a lot of questions about what went on at the site. The report that the police got their own kids out, but left others is really troubling.
I understand that if the decsiion is made to storm a building in a hostage situation it should be done by units that are throughly trained to do it, and you should wati for them, but that seems not to be the only thing that happened.
 
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