Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[lauwenmark]

The CDC has been explicitly prohibited by Congress from spending money to examine gun violence, broadly, as a public health problem.

Yes. Again, so what? Do you need a CDC report to conclude that gun violence is a public health issue?

If the repeated mass shooting events and the already published statistics failed to convince some, what makes you think they'd change minds "because the CDC said so"?

 

[Rolfe]

At least this one seems to have been stopped before he shot anyone.

[imgw=600]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FToqrdrUAAAnqZK?format=jpg&name=medium[/imgw]

 

[Meadmaker]

Cops -- not security guards but actual armed police officers -- are routinely assigned to U.S. schools They're often called "resource officers." It sounds like that's what this school had.

I usually associate those with high schools. They mostly deal with problems caused by students. I was surprised there was one at an elementary school.


And.....it didn't work.

 

[Meadmaker]

The CDC has been explicitly prohibited by Congress from spending money to examine gun violence, broadly, as a public health problem.

I'm good with that decision, for reasons related to what lauwenmark said.

(Welcome, Lauenmark, I don't think I've seen your posts before.)

I want the CDC to be studying germs. You don't need an MD or PhD to figure out that guns kill people.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It would be interesting to see a type of gun, shots fired, people hit study of mass shootings to see how much of an effect the type of gun has. I get the theory of a gun with lots of bullets and no need to constantly reload, allows more kills than a single shot, regular reload weapon. But what difference does it really make?

Hungerford - 2 x semi auto rifles and a handgun - 16 deaths, 15 injured
Dunblane - 4 x handguns - 16 deaths, 15 injured
Cumbria - 1 x shotgun, 1 x bolt action rifle - 12 deaths, 11 injured
Plymouth - 1 x shotgun - 5 death, 2 injured.

Another factor is movement. Dunblane was all inside one school, Hungerford and Plymouth were over shorter distances, but Cumbria was over a long distance as that shooter drove around.

Another factor is the shooter. The least known mass shooting in the UK was Monkseaton in 1989, when a male took his father's shotgun and shot at 17 people, killing 1 and injuring 14.

I am not convinced the type of gun is a major factor in how many die in mass shootings.

The gun pigs passed a law which forbids the CDC to do any kind of study on gun violence. It's a public health issue; the CDC isn't only about infectious disease.

It should have been repealed, and it still should be. Write, email or call your representatives and ask for the law to be rescinded. Putting our hands over our eyes is not going to help the matter.

Now that I'm thinking about it, the FBI put a profile together on school shooters. That needs more attention paid to it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Do they ever even change the wording of that?

I was thinking something similar, that headline could easily have been real.

I didn't read the rest.

 

[dudalb]

The CDC has been explicitly prohibited by Congress from spending money to examine gun violence, broadly, as a public health problem.

I think the problem should be researched, but don';t see why it's a public health problem. Seems to me more like a legal/ Criminal law problem .
Might as well say auto accidents are a health problem and let the CDC handle it.
I am not agianst funding research,just don't think the CDC should do it.

 

[dudalb]

That the kid was able to buy two assault rifles without any waiting period or any background check is outrageous. And I am a gun owner.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Read between the lines and the cops ran away. Somehow there was an exchange of gunfire outside, then nothing while cops waited for backup and this guy killed without interference inside.

All this money we piss away on cops and when it's their time to risk their necks to actually serve their community they're all pissing their pants waiting for swat to show up. Meanwhile teachers are blocking bullets with their bodies.

Unless you have some good evidence here, this CT does not deserve to be repeated.

Unless you are talking about whichever shooting it was where the security guard with a gun waited outside for back up.

 

[dudalb]

Columbine had an armed guard, approached the shooters outside the building, exchanged gunfire with the two gun students and thought he almost hit one. But then they fired back and entered the building anyway.

Stoneman Douglas had an armed guard. He hid behind a trash can until more cops arrived.

People calling for armed guards at schools might need to be schooled as to the effectiveness of these guards.

They are there as a detterent more then anyelse.
Problem is you can't deter a madman.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

All I can say if the Dems adapt a "We don't need no stinking moderates" attitude it will not end well for them.
I am one of those who can easily see the moderates in both parties getting together and froming a party of their own if they are driven from both parties.

I don't see that happening.

 

[dudalb]

The gun pigs passed a law which forbids the CDC to do any kind of study on gun violence. It's a public health issue; the CDC isn't only about infectious disease.

It should have been repealed, and it still should be. Write, email or call your representatives and ask for the law to be rescinded. Putting our hands over our eyes is not going to help the matter.

Now that I'm thinking about it, the FBI put a profile together on school shooters. That needs more attention paid to it.

I disagree, it's a law enforcement/Criminal law problem probably belongs in the Justice Department.. I know there is a mental health issue involved, but not enough to kick it into the CDC's territory.
I think we need to distinguish between Public Health and Public Safety.Yes, there are connencted, but still, because people are killed should the CDC be in charge of investigating plane crashes?

 

[dudalb]

I don't see that happening.

I do.I hear it all the time.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yes. Again, so what? Do you need a CDC report to conclude that gun violence is a public health issue?

If the repeated mass shooting events and the already published statistics failed to convince some, what makes you think they'd change minds "because the CDC said so"?

That's not what the CDC would do. We already know it is a public health issue. What they could have been doing was researching the circumstances of all these shooters and publish recommendations on how to prevent them.

How do you know they wouldn't have useful recommendations if you haven't seen any research on the topic?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm good with that decision, for reasons related to what lauwenmark said.

(Welcome, Lauenmark, I don't think I've seen your posts before.)

I want the CDC to be studying germs. You don't need an MD or PhD to figure out that guns kill people.

Again, what makes you think that's what their research would focus on?

What about identifying and intervening with these kids and their dysfunctional families long before it gets to the shooting stage?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think the problem should be researched, but don';t see why it's a public health problem. Seems to me more like a legal/ Criminal law problem .
Might as well say auto accidents are a health problem and let the CDC handle it.
I am not agianst funding research,just don't think the CDC should do it.

Auto accidents are a public health problem. Who do you think made all the recommendations on how to make the roads, especially freeways, less lethal? Seatbelt and helmet research was conducted by the CDC.

You just have a misunderstanding about their mission. It's easy to think they are simply an infectious disease agency but public health is much larger than that. They've done a lot of research on lead poisoning and other environmental toxins. There is also carbon monoxide poisoning, and how about fire safety?

Public health most certainly includes guns and gun violence. Dark money/Big money in the gun industry don't want anyone to look at the problem. They want to keep making money and ignoring the deaths.

 

[Armitage72]

It seems like there was one cop who worked at the school, and two others from the local PD, who were on the scene as the shooter got out of his car, firing.

But they couldn't keep him from getting into the school. It said they shot at him. Body armor saved the shooter maybe? With three guys shooting at him, it seems like they ought to have been able to do something to stop him, especially as he had already fired shots.

The initial reports were that he was wearing body armor. The latest report from local law enforcement is "a tactical vest carrier with no ballistic panels". So they just couldn't hit him.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

CDC Mission Statement

CDC works 24/7 to protect America from health, safety and security threats, both foreign and in the U.S. Whether diseases start at home or abroad, are chronic or acute, curable or preventable, human error or deliberate attack, CDC fights disease and supports communities and citizens to do the same.

CDC increases the health security of our nation. As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise.

CDC in the 20th century:

Detecting and responding to new and emerging health threats

Tackling the biggest health problems causing death and disability for Americans

Putting science and advanced technology into action to prevent disease

Promoting healthy and safe behaviors, communities and environment

Developing leaders and training the public health workforce, including disease detectives

Taking the health pulse of our nation

They wanted to study gun deaths. IIRC they initially found people are more likely to be shot by the gun in their own home than they are to use that gun for protection from an intruder.

That's about the time the gun-lobby got Congress to pass a law against the CDC studying gun violence. Apparently that has changed so we can look forward to some decent research on the matter now.

Dickey Amendment^WP

The Dickey Amendment is a provision first inserted as a rider into the 1996 United States federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control."[1] In the same spending bill, Congress earmarked $2.6 million from the CDC's budget, the exact amount that had previously been allocated to the agency for firearms research the previous year, for traumatic brain injury-related research.[2]

The amendment was lobbied for by the National Rifle Association (NRA), and named after its author Jay Dickey, a Republican member of the United States House of Representatives from Arkansas.[2] Although the Dickey Amendment did not explicitly ban it, for about two decades the CDC avoided all research on gun violence for fear it would be financially penalized.[3] Congress clarified the law in 2018 to allow for such research, and the FY2020 federal omnibus spending bill earmarked the first funding for it since 1996.

CDC study shows alarming rise in gun violence

ST. LOUIS, Mo. (KMOV) - The CDC released a troubling study released Tuesday, showing an alarming rise in gun deaths in the United States.

The study concluded that gun-related deaths increased by 35% in 2020 from 2019. We haven’t seen these rates in 25 years. Gun violence is impacting rural and urban areas and is now the leading cause of death in children.

“We’ve now seen firearm deaths surpass motor vehicle crashes as the leading cause of death in children ages one to 19,” Cardinal Glennon Pediatric Surgeon Christopher Blewett said. He’s seen the trauma from gun violence firsthand.

 

[Andy_Ross]

As for "it's too soon", that is a crock of poo. We have a new shooting every week so I guess it's always too soon.

That's a feature, not a bug.

 

[alfaniner]

I think it's far too soon to have a live interview with one of the parents. It reads as exploitative.

A couple other minor notes -- my speculation is moot. The killer did mention an elementary school in his pre-attack posts.

And...

you can buy Kinder Eggs in the U.S. I just saw some in the checkout line less than 30 minutes ago. I don't know if the configuration is the same but the label did say "Surprise toy inside!"