Trans women are not women (Part 8)

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And I can respect that position. Personally, I'm not a fan of early medical transition. But I have to recognize that when the diagnosis is correct it is beneficial.

Is it? Based on what evidence?

Early medical transition produces cosmetic results which more closely resemble the opposite sex. But that's a pretty shallow benefit, and it comes at huge costs. There's some evidence that it prevents full cognitive development, it may have negative long-term health consequences, and I've also heard it also prevents sexual development, making those who transition pre-puberty unable to experience orgasm.

I have not seen any hard evidence that early medical transition is actually a genuine long-term benefit.

I would point out that while agree that medical transition does permanent damage to children incorrectly diagnosed as trans,

The dirty secret to all this is that it does permanent damage even to people correctly diagnosed.
 
I'm not convinced they need a working understanding of sexuality at all at that age.
I'm guessing you've never had to explain to a grade schooler why someone who used to present as a woman now presents as a man or why their schoolmate has two mommies.

You don't have to explain anything about sex (in the sense that the term denotes the reproductive act rather than the reproductive binary) in order to do this, FWIW.
 
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Gavin Newsom recently tweeted, regarding the leaked Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe, "If men could get pregnant, this wouldn’t even be a conversation."

Funny how something like this makes some people remember what is the difference between men and women.
 
Gavin Newsom recently tweeted, regarding the leaked Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe, "If men could get pregnant, this wouldn’t even be a conversation."

Funny how something like this makes some people remember what is the difference between men and women.

The sprint to outlaw abortion has certainly seemed to sucked all the air out of the room. While I'm sure these states will eventually circle back around to assaulting the rights of trans people, criminalizing abortion is obviously taking first priority.

A resounding silence from the TERFs who were just months ago doing victory dances when these same right wing ghouls were gunning for trans rights. I wonder how they feel about their strategic alliance with these right wing extremists now? Deals with the devil backfiring, who could have predicted such things?
 
Well, I was pretty staunchly against boys competing in girls' sports, but now that I see that the Supreme Court will probably remove abortion rights protections, I realized just how foolish that was.


And there are some people who actually think like that, which is kind of scary.
 
I'll repeat it for ST's benefit.

The American left will lock you in a cell with a rapist. The American right will force you to have his baby.

News flash. It is possible, indeed normal, to regard both these things as extremely wrong, and to oppose both vehemently. Only in America does it appear that objecting to a woman being forced to share a cell with a rapist means that you must wholeheartedly approve of her being forced to have his baby.

Grow the hell up, America.
 
I'm guessing you've never had to explain to a grade schooler why someone who used to present as a woman now presents as a man or why their schoolmate has two mommies.

I'm not convinced an explanation is actually needed. Kids can accept that some things just are, without having to know why.
 
Well, I was pretty staunchly against boys competing in girls' sports, but now that I see that the Supreme Court will probably remove abortion rights protections, I realized just how foolish that was.


And there are some people who actually think like that, which is kind of scary.

I can see why you prefer to focus on sports, which proved to be such an effective wedge issue, but don't you think it's a bit retro to crow about this when the transphobes have moved onto criminalizing medical care for trans kids?

The parallels to the coming criminalization of Roe, including locking up any doctors or pregnant people who dare dabble in reproductive medicine, is quite obvious. The intrusion of right wing bible nuts into private lives and tinkering with people's medical decisions is the common denominator.

The Venn diagram of states criminalizing abortion and those criminalizing trans affirming care is going to end up having 100% overlap, so congrats to all the TERFs and other liberal transphobes on their smashing political success.

It's probably worth pointing out that the number of people needing reproductive care far exceeds the tiny minority of the population that are trans, so it's quite the pyrrhic victory. I would guess far more cis women end up suffering, either medically or criminally, in these states than trans people ever will.
 
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But I don't think it's clear that the highlighted is correct. Mostly because you are asking people with dysphoria to put their related issues on hold until some magical age, and as a consequence you are also forcing them to wait to transition until the point where for most of them their body develops to a point where they will always appear as an other. And I'm talking with their clothes on.

Let's unpack this a bit. You're talking exclusively psychological pain in terms of distress over a sexed body. But there are other effects from hormone blockers and cross-sex hormones being applied during puberty.

We've covered the effects of puberty blockers, so I'll just do a quick recap. Low bone density that cannot be recovered, lack of cognitive maturation, impeded and incomplete physical development (especially sexual development), and sterility.

So let's make a massive simplifying assumption, and say that the "true trans" children you're talking about are so perfectly diagnosed that they are never given blockers, they just go straight to sex-hormone suppression and cross-sex exogenous hormonal supplements.

Let's talk about a young female who is "true trans" and identifies as a boy, and doesn't want to go through their natural female puberty. Because they're taking exogenous hormones, they will experience at least some cognitive development associated with puberty, and they won't face the problems of osteopenia. On the other hand, without the estrogen/progesterone cycle... they won't grow breasts and develop milk-producing glands, they won't experience menarche and won't be able to release eggs, their hips won't widen and shift position. The testosterone will produce a greater muscle density in more typically masculine locations on the body... and will also destroy eggs. Testosterone also causes vaginal atrophy. The lack of estrogen also means that the clitoris and vaginal tract won't achieve adult sensitivity. So while the female may cosmetically appear more masculine, they also will be extremely likely to be sterile as well as unable to experience sexual pleasure.

So let's talk about a young male who is "true trans", in the same basic scenario. The lack of testosterone prevents the jawline from becoming heavier, prevents the growth of facial and body hair, and reduces muscle density. It also, by the way, prevents the descension of the testes and the elongation of the penis, and prevents the onset of sperm production and prostate function. The estrogen will result in fat deposits in more traditionally feminine locations, including the breast area... but it won't result in the development of milk-producing glands to the degree that a female would grow. And again, without their body's natural hormones, they will not achieve sexual maturity, and will most likely be both sterile and unable to experience sexual pleasure.

All in all, we're talking about the cosmetic advantage of looking more like the opposite sex... but at the price of fertility and sexual pleasure. I think you may be underestimating the importance of sexual pleasure in the average human. Some people choose celibacy and a life without masturbation... but they're quite rare.

I'm not convinced that it's in the best interest of the child to indulge their desire for physical appearance while depriving them of physical pleasure. How can even the most "true trans" child consent to that trade-off, when they don't know what it is they're sacrificing?
 
I'm not sure it's accurate to say that most people on the trans side think that tomboys are trans.

You may not see it as accurate. But I know a whole lot of adult females who were tomboys when they were younger, many of whom are now lesbians, who are quite certain that if they'd been fed the same ideology in play today, they would have viewed themselves as trans, and would have ended up regretting it.

Beyond that... given the propensity for trans activists to retroactively trans any non-conforming female throughout history, I'm less generous than you.
 
I can see why you prefer to focus on sports, which proved to be such an effective wedge issue, but don't you think it's a bit retro to crow about this when the transphobes have moved onto criminalizing medical care for trans kids?


No. I'm capable of considering multiple issues independently.
 
Has anyone said that no trans people were sex offenders or child abusers? Is it really accurate to say that this is something that is said "never happens?"

There's a persistent narrative that transwomen are not a danger to females at all, and in fact are more at risk of sexual assault than females are. It gets trotted out as a "gotcha" any time a female human objects to male-bodied penis-havers in our safe spaces. We're painted as bigoted, transphobic, evil, hate-filled hysterical harridans who are terrified of penises while simultaneously holding immense power over males who identify as "women".

So yes, actually, there is a constant rhetoric that transwomen aren't a risk, they're not sex offenders, that's all some underhanded lie made up by evil females.

And at the same time... when any actual evidence is shown, we get "oh that's just a one off, you can't base your fears on rare things!" or "just because there are some bad apples doesn't mean all of them are bad" and similar claptrap.

All the while ignoring that the very core reason that most females object to penis-havers being granted access to our spaces is because there is no way at all to tell which males are safe and which are not. And that holds true regardless of how they present or how they view themselves.
 
Gavin Newsom recently tweeted, regarding the leaked Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe, "If men could get pregnant, this wouldn’t even be a conversation."

Funny how something like this makes some people remember what is the difference between men and women.

Oh, I do hope they received oodles of responses insisting that "men" can absolutely get pregnant, and overlooking the obvious sex-based discrimination involved.
 
A resounding silence from the TERFs who were just months ago doing victory dances when these same right wing ghouls were gunning for trans rights. I wonder how they feel about their strategic alliance with these right wing extremists now? Deals with the devil backfiring, who could have predicted such things?

It would sure be nice if you actually bothered to pay attention, rather than just imagining whatever narrative makes you feel righteous about your dehumanization and denigration of females.

The overwhelming majority of gender critical feminists are EXTREMELY vocal about these abortion bans.
 
It would sure be nice if you actually bothered to pay attention, rather than just imagining whatever narrative makes you feel righteous about your dehumanization and denigration of females.

The overwhelming majority of gender critical feminists are EXTREMELY vocal about these abortion bans.

I wonder if they leaned anything about strategically allying with these people in their anti-trans campaign. Doubt it.
 
I'll repeat it for ST's benefit.

The American left will lock you in a cell with a rapist. The American right will force you to have his baby.

News flash. It is possible, indeed normal, to regard both these things as extremely wrong, and to oppose both vehemently. Only in America does it appear that objecting to a woman being forced to share a cell with a rapist means that you must wholeheartedly approve of her being forced to have his baby.

Grow the hell up, America.

I would say "Grow the hell up, American Males"

Females are overwhelmingly opposed to abortion bans in the US. There are always some religious hold-outs, but the numbers are not large.

Both of those "decisions" are being made by MALES and forced upon FEMALES who do not agree with them.
 
I would say "Grow the hell up, American Males"

Females are overwhelmingly opposed to abortion bans in the US. There are always some religious hold-outs, but the numbers are not large.

Both of those "decisions" are being made by MALES and forced upon FEMALES who do not agree with them.

Citation: Just trust me bro.
 
I would say "Grow the hell up, American Males"

Females are overwhelmingly opposed to abortion bans in the US. There are always some religious hold-outs, but the numbers are not large.

Both of those "decisions" are being made by MALES and forced upon FEMALES who do not agree with them.

That's not really true. The gap between the sexes on the topic isn't very big. In the 2021 survey, women identify as pro-choice vs. pro-life 52% to 43%, whereas for men it's 50% to 45%. Men are only slightly more opposed to abortion than women.
 
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