Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

[Chris_Halkides]

Arnautoff mural in San Francisco

Was just wondering how tediously boring US history lessons must be for US students these days, given half the actual historical fact is being slowly deleted.

Recently there was an attempt to destroy a mural in a San Francisco high school. Victor Arnautoff painted the mural in 1936. His mural showed George Washington pointing west, and there was a dead Native American. Some think that the mural is disrespectful of Native Americans, but a reasonable interpretation of the mural is that it was critical of treatment of Native Americans by the United States, particularly regarding the westward expansion. IIUC a compromise eventually was reached concerning the fate of the mural. There are aspects of this incident which overlap with cancel culture.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Washington Commanders former name

Here is a bit more on the Chicago teacher who was fired for using the N-word in full while explaining why the former name of the Washington Commanders was offensive.

""Guys, that's no better than calling someone a [N-word]," DeVoto can be heard saying in the recording. "Calling someone a 'redskin,' that's the same thing as calling someone a [N-word]. So, thank God, they finally changed the name of the team."" Link

 

[Dr. Keith]

I respectfully disagree; cancel culture generally concerns speech including artistic performance. Rolling coal is not speech; it put the cyclists into a dangerous situation.

You didn’t read the article. He said it was cancel culture.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

article by Greg Lukianoff and Komi German

You didn’t read the article. He said it was cancel culture.

I read your link, but you did not read mine from some time ago, the one written by Greg Lukianoff and Komi German. The article to which I linked explained that just because someone calls it cancel culture doesn't mean it is cancel culture.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I read your link, but you did not read mine from some time ago, the one written by Greg Lukianoff and Komi German. The article to which I linked explained that just because someone calls it cancel culture doesn't mean it is cancel culture.

So, I shouldn’t trust them just because they say it’s cancel culture. Why are they more important than coal roller?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

a familiar irritant to college administrators

So, I shouldn’t trust them just because they say it’s cancel culture. Why are they more important than coal roller?

From Wikipedia: "According to The New York Times journalist Cecilia Capuzzi Simon, "There are other groups that fight for First Amendment rights on campus, but none as vocal—or pushy—as FIRE."[2] The Times also referred to FIRE as a "familiar irritant to college administrators."[2]". With respect to Florida's recent law, I say, the pushier, the better.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Did he do it himself, or get one of his 123 slaves, he personally owned do it?

That can't be mentioned in the curriculum.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

So, I shouldn’t trust them just because they say it’s cancel culture. Why are they more important than coal roller?

Let's set aside who is more "important" because that's a stunningly dumb way to go about determining the veracity of potentially incompatible claims.

Are you perhaps aware that when people do things that result in consequences they get a very selective memory about what happened in what order and before you know it "everyone is piling on and being so unfair!"

DARVO

Deny, attack, reverse victim-offender.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Let's set aside who is more "important" because that's a stunningly dumb way to go about determining the veracity of potentially incompatible claims.

Are you perhaps aware that when people do things that result in consequences they get a very selective memory about what happened in what order and before you know it "everyone is piling on and being so unfair!"

DARVO

Deny, attack, reverse victim-offender.

Entirely.

I just think it funny that one definition of this catch all phrase is being picked by some in this thread while in general usage that definition does not apply. When I hear the words “cancel culture” used in conversation or general media it almost never is limited to the definition that some advocacy group is trying to push.

The phrase started as a response to vile acts by celebrities and now we are supposed to limit it to only attacks on free speech? ********. Words are defined by their usage, not the whims of activists.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Entirely.



I just think it funny that one definition of this catch all phrase is being picked by some in this thread while in general usage that definition does not apply. When I hear the words “cancel culture” used in conversation or general media it almost never is limited to the definition that some advocacy group is trying to push.



The phrase started as a response to vile acts by celebrities and now we are supposed to limit it to only attacks on free speech? ********. Words are defined by their usage, not the whims of activists.

Well, if the steady march of people decrying the plight of facing the consequences of their actions screeching "cancel culture" continues, then eventually people will respond to that phrase with "well, I mean...yeah," shrug, and move on.

So be it.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Well, if the steady march of people decrying the plight of facing the consequences of their actions screeching "cancel culture" continues, then eventually people will respond to that phrase with "well, I mean...yeah," shrug, and move on.

So be it.

I feel like you have confirmed that my writing in this thread is legible. Thank you. I was beginning to have questions.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

FIRE has a track record

The phrase started as a response to vile acts by celebrities and now we are supposed to limit it to only attacks on free speech? ********. Words are defined by their usage, not the whims of activists.

Cancel culture denialists are not the best source for a definition of cancel culture; JoeMorgue's definition was a hot, sticky mess. The article I mentioned indicated that there has been an increase in such incidents within the past few years. When the activists are lawyers with knowledge of first amendment law and a track record defending both liberals and conservatives, their opinion carries more weight than yours does.

 

[Dr. Keith]

The truth is more important than activism. Go find out where the phrase came from before you fight to the death over its meaning.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Pew Research

The truth is more important than activism. Go find out where the phrase came from before you fight to the death over its meaning.

You are an anonymous commenter; therefore, your credentials are not open to verification. I have read one of Robert Shibley's essays and portions of a book by Greg Lukianoff, whom I have also heard speak. When they write, about a topic, they give specifics to back up what they are saying. I know something of their background and FIRE's history more generally. I suggest that you study their cases; your comments may become better informed.

Some months ago I linked to Pew Research cancel culture (here is another link); although some definitions offered mentioned celebrity, it was not always indicated to be a central, defining aspect. Nor can I think of a good reason why it should be.

 

[Dr. Keith]

FIRE is excellent at their advocacy. How could you interpret anything I’ve written otherwise?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Connotations and celebrities

FIRE is excellent at their advocacy. How could you interpret anything I’ve written otherwise?

The connotations of the words you chose, such as "push" and "whims."

If you had wanted to limit the usage of the phrase "cancel culture" to alleged vile acts by celebrities, why did you offer the example of the guy who rolled coal?

 

[Dr. Keith]

The connotations of the words you chose, such as "push" and "whims."

If you had wanted to limit the usage of the phrase "cancel culture" to alleged vile acts by celebrities, why did you offer the example of the guy who rolled coal?

I had no such intention. I no longer see any use in limiting the definition. It once required some mass response on social media, but that seems to no longer apply. It once applied to bad acts, but that no longer applies. It once was a modern marvel, but that no longer applies. I’m not sure it means much at all now, and that’s not a bad thing at all. In fact, I find it politically correct.

 

[Graham2001]

A case reported by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Eduction where from my reading the censoring group is politically right, but are using all the 'trendy words' derived from 'Woke Culture'.

California writing professor investigated after admin calls works by black, brown, queer authors ‘triggering,’ ‘deviant pornography’

* Three-time ‘Professor of the Year’ at Soka University of America faces hearing over assigning material that an admin says ‘did not create a safe space’

* Challenged works include writings by prominent intellectuals and award-winning creators of color

* Professor concerned investigation is retaliation for their public criticism of university, calls climate at the California college ‘chilling’

https://www.thefire.org/california-...-authors-were-triggering-deviant-pornography/

 

[johnny karate]

A case reported by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Eduction where from my reading the censoring group is politically right, but are using all the 'trendy words' derived from 'Woke Culture'.

https://www.thefire.org/california-...-authors-were-triggering-deviant-pornography/

Wait until you find out what Republican legislatures are doing all over the U.S.

(Spoiler alert: It's exactly this.)

 

[ZiprHead]

Conservative parents take aim at library apps meant to expand access to books

In several states, apps and the companies that run them have been targeted by conservative parents who have pushed schools and public libraries to shut down their digital programs, which let users download and read books on their smartphones, tablets and laptops.

Some parents want the apps to be banned for their children or even for all students. And they’re getting results.

A school superintendent in a suburb of Nashville, Tennessee, pulled his system’s e-reader offline for a week last month, cutting access for 40,000 students, after a parent searched the Epic library available on her kindergartner’s laptop and found books supporting LGBTQ pride.

In a rural county northwest of Austin, Texas, county officials cut off access to the OverDrive digital library, which residents had used for a decade to find books to read for pleasure, prompting a federal lawsuit against the county.

So instead of the parents monitoring their own kids digital downloads or just taking the phone away from their snowflake kids, they've got to shut down the systems for everyone.

I don't want to hear anymore ******** about the left and cancel culture.