Trans women are not women (Part 8)

[Meadmaker]

It's wild how successful this hate mongering propaganda has been. It's only a matter of time before some Facebook poisoned boomer goes off and murders a teacher or shoots up Disneyland or whatever in order to fight back against the "groomers".

You are making **** up.

 

[Meadmaker]

Sure, the merits is that this freakout is 100% a moral panic. It's all Q-anon conspiracy level trash made mainstream by opportunistic right wingers and authoritarian freaks.

ETA: Taking bets on what the 2022 equivalent of some Q nut walking into comet ping pong with a rifle is going to be.

And Q-Anon has gotten to Sweden, too!

Those tentacles have a very long reach.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You are making **** up.

Owens slammed Disney as “child groomers” and “pedophiles” in a tweet Thursday. She posted the provocative message in response to Disney’s criticism of the new law, which the company has vowed to fight.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/01/candace-owens-calls-for-boycott-of-pedophile-disney/

You may recall Owens as the pundit the Christchurch shooter cited as being most influential in his killer's manifesto.

These right wing pundits know exactly what they're doing when they paint these targets.

There's already been one Q-Anon style rally outside the gates of Disney.

This week, they were joined by a ragtag group of far-right extremists, conspiracy theorists, and Christian nationalists outside Disney’s headquarters in Burbank to air their latest grievance: grooming children.

The Disney corporation has been accused of supporting grooming children ever since it withdrew its support for Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” law. The law, which has inspired similar legislation elsewhere, bans teachers from teaching kids up to age 12 anything about sexual orientation or gender identity. In just the past week, the Disney grooming conspiracy has rapidly morphed into wild claims that the corporation is on a covert mission to indoctrinate children with a satanic agenda or is a front for a secret pedophilia ring.

Wednesday’s rally was organized by Sean Feucht, one of the “patriot pastors” who has risen to national prominence in recent years amid a surge of Christian nationalism within the GOP. Feucht and his ilk view culture war issues—election conspiracies, vaccines, critical race theory, LGBTQ rights—as primordial battles between good and evil that not only offend Christianity but also threaten what it means to be American.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88g3ep/anti-grooming-rally-at-disney-is-latest-stop-for-culture-war-traveling-circus

You're fooling yourself if you don't think these extreme smears won't lead to violence. It's only a matter of time.

 

[Meadmaker]

If things were working the way we would like them to, I would agree with you.

The problem is that schools are actively teaching gender ideology, indoctrinating children to believe that they can choose what sex they want to be, telling them that it's safe and normal for children to switch sexes, and creating confusion among them. Keeping it secret from parents reinforces that distrust of parents across the board and entrenches this ideology.

There is, undoubtedly, a problem.

I'm just not sure a rule that will fix it. I think that if it's just talk, people should be allowed to just talk. I know that can have bad outcomes. I know that can drive a wedge between kids and parents. There are plenty of possible bad outcomes, but that is true no matter what you do. In the end, my libertarian streak pops out. If they aren't allowed to actually do anything irreversible until they reach the age acknowledged as adulthood (even though, really, that's a process, not a magic date), I think it's best to allow it.

I would go so far as to be very forceful on "allowing it". What I mean by that is that I'm sure it is possible for a principal or a department head to announce, "It is school policy that we never discuss private matters related to sexuality with parents." I would prohibit such policies. If an individual counselor or teacher decides to share or not to share with parents, they should be allowed to do so.

When it comes to "social transitioning", it's a safe bet the parents will find out, about the time that a report card comes home with "Jill" on it, or about the time that a teacher says, "Your daughter seems to be having some problems in Physics class."

 

[xjx388]

Just did a minor clean up of the thread. Please keep to the topic of the thread which is not each other and each other's motivations/tactics. I'd hate to have this thread go back on moderated status but it seems inevitable . . .

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: xjx388

 

[Aber]

The notion that these medical interventions are being advised flippantly is simply untrue.

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets2/status/1514163332030287874

SJ: MW makes the statement that the 9 year old was Gillick Competent. The 9 year old (Patient B) had only been present on a video call for 10 minutes

Disciplinary hearing for a UK doctor who put a 9 year old on puberty blockers after a 10 min video call.

General Medical Council alleging that the doctor had a financial motivation to prescribe.

 

[Darat]

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets2/status/1514163332030287874



Disciplinary hearing for a UK doctor who put a 9 year old on puberty blockers after a 10 min video call.

General Medical Council alleging that the doctor had a financial motivation to prescribe.

That actually supports SuburbanTurkey's comment. It shows that a doctor in the UK acting in such a way "flippantly" is being disciplined. I find that reassuring. Of course I'd rather it hadn't happened in the first place but there will always be bad medical practitioners.

 

[Rolfe]

The replies to this tweet are an utter joy.

https://twitter.com/PeteJStanton/sta...65417578729475

I had not realised that the man who withdrew his £15,000 sponsorship for the women's cycling race because a man wasn't allowed to compete has they/them pronouns in his Twitter bio. Says it all really.

 

[lionking]

That actually supports SuburbanTurkey's comment. It shows that a doctor in the UK acting in such a way "flippantly" is being disciplined. I find that reassuring. Of course I'd rather it hadn't happened in the first place but there will always be bad medical practitioners.

A couple of problems with this “only a minor exception” suggestion. (Yes I known you will say “I didn’t say it was an exception” but your intent is clear)

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/mike-webberley-suspended-trans-kids/

The General Medical Council (GMC) has suspended Dr. Mike Webberley, the sole provider of care for 1,600 transgender patients. He is the fourth UK gender-affirming doctor to be subject to GMC restrictions.

Webberley’s wife, Dr. Helen Webberley, was fined in 2018 for failing to register her trans health online services with a health regulator in Wales.

In 2017, she was suspended from providing care to transgender patients. Her husband took over full provision of their care as there is no alternate interim provision available on the NHS

.

This couple should be deregistered. Which will be no problem as they plan to move their practice overseas. But they “treated” a massive number of people and illustrate a UK health system that turned a blind eye to doctors like this.

 

[Darat]

A couple of problems with this “only a minor exception” suggestion. (Yes I known you will say “I didn’t say it was an exception” but your intent is clear)

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/mike-webberley-suspended-trans-kids/

.

This couple should be deregistered. Which will be no problem as they plan to move their practice overseas. But they “treated” a massive number of people and illustrate a UK health system that turned a blind eye to doctors like this.

And that is also supporting SuburbanTurkey's point.

 

[Rolfe]

They had a massive share of the "market" and it's only very recently, as the tide has begun to turn against worshipping all things trans as being beyond criticism, that some steps have been taken against them.

 

[Lplus]

That actually supports SuburbanTurkey's comment. It shows that a doctor in the UK acting in such a way "flippantly" is being disciplined. I find that reassuring. Of course I'd rather it hadn't happened in the first place but there will always be bad medical practitioners.

And that is also supporting SuburbanTurkey's point.

Neither support ST's statement that "medical interventions are being advised flippantly is simply untrue". in fact quite the opposite. The very fact that those medical practitioners have been caught indicates that such activity has been happening.

 

[lionking]

Neither support ST's statement that "medical interventions are being advised flippantly is simply untrue". in fact quite the opposite. The very fact that those medical practitioners have been caught indicates that such activity has been happening.

Exactly. Not only happening, but endorsed by the NHS.

 

[Elaedith]

And that is also supporting SuburbanTurkey's point.

Until very recently, patients were referred to the Webberley's clinic by Mermaids, a registered charity that received £500,000 in lottery funding and is still supported by mainstream organisations. LGBT groups within universities support Mermaids and nobody dares criticise them for fear of having their lives and careers destroyed. Graham Linehan and others were vilified for calling for lottery funding for Mermaids to be investigated.

The only reason that the Webberley's were investigated at all is that a few people were willing to persist in speaking out and suffer the 'consequences of their actions' from the cancel culture that doesn't exist.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

And that is also supporting SuburbanTurkey's point.

It's probably worth asking why trans care in the NHS is in such shortage that so many patients are relying on such sketchy online clinicians.

Strikes me as a bit of circular reasoning for the system to fail to provide adequate care, then point to people seeking out sub-optimal care as a reason to not provide adequate care.

Trans patients in the UK would not be doctor shopping in weird corners of the internet or abroad if there weren't a systematic failure to provide timely care through the NHS. The absurd wait times to get proper care are well documented.

ETA: The article about the suspension is from 2019. Surely the NHS has made strides to resolve this shortage of qualified doctors since then, right?

 

[Darat]

Neither support ST's statement that "medical interventions are being advised flippantly is simply untrue". in fact quite the opposite. The very fact that those medical practitioners have been caught indicates that such activity has been happening.

"are"

 

[Darat]

Until very recently, patients were referred to the Webberley's clinic by Mermaids, a registered charity that received £500,000 in lottery funding and is still supported by mainstream organisations. LGBT groups within universities support Mermaids and nobody dares criticise them for fear of having their lives and careers destroyed. Graham Linehan and others were vilified for calling for lottery funding for Mermaids to be investigated.

The only reason that the Webberley's were investigated at all is that a few people were willing to persist in speaking out and suffer the 'consequences of their actions' from the cancel culture that doesn't exist.

And?

 

[Rolfe]

It's probably worth asking why trans care in the NHS is in such shortage that so many patients are relying on such sketchy online clinicians.

Strikes me as a bit of circular reasoning for the system to fail to provide adequate care, then point to people seeking out sub-optimal care as a reason to not provide adequate care.

Trans patients in the UK would not be doctor shopping in weird corners of the internet or abroad if there weren't a systematic failure to provide timely care through the NHS.

ETA: The article about the suspension is from 2019. Surely the NHS has made strides to resolve this shortage of qualified doctors since then, right?

It's in such shortage because the number of children being presented to the NHS for apparent "gender dysphoria" has increased five-fold in recent years.

And nobody is allowed to speculate as to why.

And to address your edit, in case you haven't noticed, the NHS has had more to worry about between 2019 and now than kids who ought to be left alone to play with whatever toys they like.

 

[Rolfe]

Just seen on Twitter, attributed to "Trina B".

"If you use cis woman it means you accept there are 2 types of women - male ones and female ones. They can **** off with that!"

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Darat]

It's probably worth asking why trans care in the NHS is in such shortage that so many patients are relying on such sketchy online clinicians.

Strikes me as a bit of circular reasoning for the system to fail to provide adequate care, then point to people seeking out sub-optimal care as a reason to not provide adequate care.

Trans patients in the UK would not be doctor shopping in weird corners of the internet or abroad if there weren't a systematic failure to provide timely care through the NHS.

ETA: The article about the suspension is from 2019. Surely the NHS has made strides to resolve this shortage of qualified doctors since then, right?

There is an issue of funding in all the UK's NHSs, but especially so in England and especially in funding for "mental" health services. This is the result of policies followed by Tory governments over the last 12 years or so. That is due to them wanting to remove the NHS and replace it with a totally private system. You cannot draw any conclusions about stated or unstated policies in regards to trans treatments and support from them being sub-par, all NHS services are chronically and acutely underfunded so are sub-par.