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Biden to take action on ghost guns.

Ranb

Penultimate Amazing
Ranb
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Biden is taking action on ghost guns. Some of these issues have been addressed before by the ATF.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...-leadership-it-needs-to-enforce-our-gun-laws/
This final rule bans the business of manufacturing the most accessible ghost guns, such as unserialized “buy build shoot” kits that individuals can buy online or at a store without a background check and can readily assemble into a working firearm in as little as 30 minutes with equipment they have at home.
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The ATF banned "build parties" in which people would by kits such 80% ar-15 lower receivers then go to a machine shop to finish them. The ATF rule required that any machine shop be licensed as a firearm manufacturer prior to allowing the use of their equipment to finish a firearm kit.
https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/down...FjAJegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw1J2HAOVaEcjgRfcXQgIB06



Biden's new rule will also update the definition of a firearm. Some guns such as the ar-15 have a split receiver. The receiver is currently defined to be the part that holds the "hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism". On an ar-15, the lower receiver, which all US manufacturers only sell to FFL's, contains the firing mechanism and hammer, but not the bolt. So technically, the ar-15 lower receiver is not legally a firearm all by itself even though I've never seen them for sale as a non-firearm.

Federal currently does not require a home built firearm (other than NFA firearms) to have a serial number. But if it is transferred to another person or FFL, it is required to have a serial number engraved.

Biden's order will require serial numbers on all firearms if they are transferred. I'm not sure how this will be different from current regulations.
 
Ranb said:
Biden is taking action on ghost guns. Some of these issues have been addressed before by the ATF.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...-leadership-it-needs-to-enforce-our-gun-laws/



The ATF banned "build parties" in which people would by kits such 80% ar-15 lower receivers then go to a machine shop to finish them. The ATF rule required that any machine shop be licensed as a firearm manufacturer prior to allowing the use of their equipment to finish a firearm kit.
https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/down...FjAJegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw1J2HAOVaEcjgRfcXQgIB06



Biden's new rule will also update the definition of a firearm. Some guns such as the ar-15 have a split receiver. The receiver is currently defined to be the part that holds the "hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism". On an ar-15, the lower receiver, which all US manufacturers only sell to FFL's, contains the firing mechanism and hammer, but not the bolt. So technically, the ar-15 lower receiver is not legally a firearm all by itself even though I've never seen them for sale as a non-firearm.

Federal currently does not require a home built firearm (other than NFA firearms) to have a serial number. But if it is transferred to another person or FFL, it is required to have a serial number engraved.

Biden's order will require serial numbers on all firearms if they are transferred. I'm not sure how this will be different from current regulations.
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It's extremely unclear to me what exactly this is going to require. The letter mentions requiring serialization of "kits". I have no idea if this means any 80% lower that are commonly sold will have to be serialized and treated as a firearm, or only those 80% lowers that are bundled with jigs and tools that are necessary to complete them.
 
I understand not liking these things, but can someone in favor of this articulate a position on when it isn't a gun?

I despise people who give an okay for X, then people work hard to make X good, then the original people come back and now say X is impermissible.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I understand not liking these things, but can someone in favor of this articulate a position on when it isn't a gun?

I despise people who give an okay for X, then people work hard to make X good, then the original people come back and now say X is impermissible.
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Presumably a piece of aluminum bar stock would not be a gun, though someone sufficiently skilled could manufacture a lower out of that. Beyond that I don't know.

Going to go into business with my new product, the 0.1% lower kit. It's a piece of bauxite ore and instructions on the few steps required to process that into a firearm.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Presumably a piece of aluminum bar stock would not be a gun, though someone sufficiently skilled could manufacture a lower out of that. Beyond that I don't know.

Going to go into business with my new product, the 0.1% lower kit. It's a piece of bauxite ore and instructions on the few steps required to process that into a firearm.
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But if I then manage to make a 100 dollar kit that allows someone to turn that ore into a gun in 30 minutes, they would probably come after me. It is sickening.
 
They already have that, but it costs more than $100. A CNC machine will whittle out a black of steel or aluminum in a short period of time.

As far as I know, the new rule will require serial numbers and stop the sale of nearly complete receivers without going through an FFL.
 
I used to work with a few people crazy enough to think that building AR-15s on the job counted as a fun team building effort.
 
Ranb said:
We will have to wait for the official rule.
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From what I'm reading online, it sounds a lot like it's only going to apply to "kits" that bundle the 80% receiver with tooling and parts for completion, not just 80% receivers alone.

Sounds like a pretty insignificant change. Anyone trying to build an unserialized rifle will have to buy their 80% lower separate from their jig and tool set. Instead of one unregulated transaction, now they have to do two unregulated transactions. Considering that this is already a "hands on" kind of project, I'm guessing this added step will not meaningfully deter much of anyone.
 
The rule in pdf.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/r...frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download

Summary.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/definition-frame-or-receiver/summary

Ranb

ETA; Holy Crap! The first link mentions the word silencer 232 times. ETA more; How many times do they have to talk about engraving the silencer tube?

An AR-15 lower receiver is now officially a firearm. It was successfully argued in court in the past that they were not as the lower receiver did not house the bolt which was in the upper receiver. If I read it correctly, the 80% receivers sold or possessed along with the drilling jig are now designated as firearms which require a serial number; also an FFL if sold across state lines.
 
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dudalb said:
I presume you are referring to the US Military?
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RecoveringYuppy said:
Nope. Software at a private company.
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Makes sense, since the US military doesn't use AR-15s, doesn't build the rifles it uses, and wouldn't do it as a "team-building exercise" (not least because pretty much everything else they do is already a kind of team building exercise).
 
theprestige said:
Makes sense, since the US military doesn't use AR-15s, doesn't build the rifles it uses, and wouldn't do it as a "team-building exercise" (not least because pretty much everything else they do is already a kind of team building exercise).
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I know money is tight these days, but I also don't think the US Army has reached the point where they're issuing rifles that have in-the-white lower receivers that were hand finished in some guy's living room with a Harbor Freight dremel tool :D
 
There is something in the mind-set of certain firearms enthusiasts that just loves the idea of an “untraceable” firearm.
I recall investigating a sudden death incident years ago, and was looking around the old gentleman’s house looking for some ID. I found he was an NRA lifetime member and had a variety of firearms in the house…. But in a drawer I found a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver with all the serial numbers and S&W logo carefully milled off. Not just obscured… cut away with a mill down to about 1/8” and then re-blued.

The motivation for this is usually the haunting fear that at some point “they are coming for my guns”.
That seems to be pervasive on the gun-related forums I frequent… That stale old notion of being a “bulwark against tyranny”.
 
Bikewer said:
There is something in the mind-set of certain firearms enthusiasts that just loves the idea of an “untraceable” firearm.
I recall investigating a sudden death incident years ago, and was looking around the old gentleman’s house looking for some ID. I found he was an NRA lifetime member and had a variety of firearms in the house…. But in a drawer I found a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver with all the serial numbers and S&W logo carefully milled off. Not just obscured… cut away with a mill down to about 1/8” and then re-blued.

The motivation for this is usually the haunting fear that at some point “they are coming for my guns”.
That seems to be pervasive on the gun-related forums I frequent… That stale old notion of being a “bulwark against tyranny”.
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Forgive my ignorance, but how does filing off the serial numbers and logos on a handgun stop these all-powerful "THEM!" from taking the guns anyway?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
From what I'm reading online, it sounds a lot like it's only going to apply to "kits" that bundle the 80% receiver with tooling and parts for completion, not just 80% receivers alone.
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It is difficult for me to describe how this kind of government activity disgusts me. I hate changing the rules because you are sad people found a way to work within the rules.
 
Sorry, my dyslexia. When I read the thread title I thought he meant these. Carry on!

[IMGw=400]https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5bacb83e809d8e12a0e172eb/1543490998899-LF9TTBA4254L0EM7TU87/Corymbia-sp.-Ian-Morris%281%29.jpg[/IMGw]
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
From what I'm reading online, it sounds a lot like it's only going to apply to "kits" that bundle the 80% receiver with tooling and parts for completion, not just 80% receivers alone.

Sounds like a pretty insignificant change. Anyone trying to build an unserialized rifle will have to buy their 80% lower separate from their jig and tool set. Instead of one unregulated transaction, now they have to do two unregulated transactions. Considering that this is already a "hands on" kind of project, I'm guessing this added step will not meaningfully deter much of anyone.
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Of course it's pretty insignificant. The gun lobby won't let anything significant pass.
 
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