Merged Russian (genocidal) internal propaganda and goals about Ukraine

[Mark6]

Here is a Kremlin mouthpiece called Ria Novosti, which lays out Russia’s goals for Ukraine. I very much recommend putting it into Google translate. It is.. eye-opening:

https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html

The title is "What must Russia do with Ukraine". I am not translating the whole thing, but here are the highlights:

Denazification is necessary when a significant part of the people - most likely the majority - has been mastered and drawn into the Nazi regime in its politics. That is, when the hypothesis "the people are good - the government is bad" does not work. Recognition of this fact is the basis of the policy of denazification, of all its measures, and the fact itself is its subject matter.

Denazification is a set of measures in relation to the nazified mass of the population, which technically cannot be subjected to direct punishment as war criminals.

However, in addition to the top, a significant part of the masses, which are passive Nazis, accomplices of Nazism, are also guilty.

And then goes on to advocate complete suppression of even the word "Ukraine", as the Nazis get in via knowledge of history.

If it's on Ria dot ru, it's pretty much official policy.

 

[Mark6]

Much like "Denazification" is Russian-speak for "ethnic cleansing", here is another example of Russian-speak:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-888382b2cff0de4d9261535ec0353f0f

Translation:

"Here, on the shore of Shelon river on 14(27) July 1471 took place a battle between armies of Moscow and Novgorod for unification of divided Russian principalities into one Russian state."

Yes. Battle for unification. Same as what is going in Ukraine now: exterminating Ukrainians for unification. Once everyone who is against the unification is dead, all is well.

 

[Hercules56]

Genocidal intentions in Russia!!!!

This is an opinion piece that was published in the Russian funded and controlled Ria Novosti. Its views, regarding Ukraine and Ukrainians, are terrifying. Genocide is literally its agenda, goal and aim.

https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-178...dJc5ueqFVoaR1ub3CcuJZlNwlpzK-VDeg6_liLAQfdLVI

Below is just part of the article:

"The Nazis who took up arms should be destroyed to the maximum on the battlefield. No significant distinction should be made between APUand the so-called national battalions, as well as the territorial defense that joined these two types of military formations. All of them are equally involved in extreme cruelty against the civilian population, equally guilty of the genocide of the Russian people, do not comply with the laws and customs of war. War criminals and active Nazis should be exemplarily and exponentially punished. There must be a total lustration. Any organizations that have associated themselves with the practice of Nazism have been liquidated and banned. However, in addition to the top, a significant part of the masses, which are passive Nazis, accomplices of Nazism, are also guilty. They supported and indulged Nazi power.

Edited by xjx388: 

Snipped quote to comply with Rule 4. Please limit quotes to brief snippets.

 

[Vixen]

Is the number of exclamation marks an indication of the magnitude of alarm we should feel?

 

[Mike!]

Is the number of exclamation marks an indication of the magnitude of alarm we should feel?

Like, "This amp goes to eleven."?

 

[timhau]

Is the number of exclamation marks an indication of the magnitude of alarm we should feel?

Not at all. I think Let's Celebrate Genocide Day falls on April this year anyway.

 

[dudalb]

A FInal solution to the Ukraine problem.

 

[Meridian]

Something I find interesting about that article (looking at the English translation here, which I believe is the same thing), is that this passage:

The current nazified Ukraine is characterized by its formlessness and ambivalence, which allow it to disguise Nazism as the aspiration to “independence” and the “European” (Western, pro-American) path of “development” (in reality, to degradation) and claim that “there is no Nazism” in Ukraine, “only few sporadic incidents.” Indeed, there isn’t a main Nazi party, no Führer, no full-fledged racial laws (only a cutdown version in the form of repressions against the Russian language). As a result — no opposition or resistance against the regime.

basically admits that it's not actually Nazism in Ukraine! The article goes on to claim (without giving any reasons that I can see) that nevertheless "Ukronazism poses a much bigger threat to the world and Russia than the Hitler version of German Nazism."

 

[Hercules56]

Something I find interesting about that article (looking at the English translation here, which I believe is the same thing), is that this passage:



basically admits that it's not actually Nazism in Ukraine! The article goes on to claim (without giving any reasons that I can see) that nevertheless "Ukronazism poses a much bigger threat to the world and Russia than the Hitler version of German Nazism."

It's almost like they are saying that aspirations of Independence and joining the European Union equals Nazism. Its just nuts.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It's almost like they are saying that aspirations of Independence and joining the European Union equals Nazism. Its just nuts.

They appear to be saying the Ukrainian Nazis are cunning and don't do any Nazi stuff or have a Nazi organisation so that there's no way to tell they're secretly Nazis except that Russia knows because it can always tell.

I do wonder who this bloodthirsty rhetoric is aimed at. Is it for domestic consumption or foreigners? Either way I suspect it's a bit of kite-flying to judge reactions and also a way to make Russia's actual intentions seem more benign (or at least less psychopthic) by comparison. Perhaps we are supposed to be relieved when we discover that Russia does not intend to murder every man, woman and child in the country, but rather only a proportion of them.

 

[Hercules56]

They appear to be saying the Ukrainian Nazis are cunning and don't do any Nazi stuff or have a Nazi organisation so that there's no way to tell they're secretly Nazis except that Russia knows because it can always tell.

I do wonder who this bloodthirsty rhetoric is aimed at. Is it for domestic consumption or foreigners? Either way I suspect it's a bit of kite-flying to judge reactions and also a way to make Russia's actual intentions seem more benign (or at least less psychopthic) by comparison. Perhaps we are supposed to be relieved when we discover that Russia does not intend to murder every man, woman and child in the country, but rather only a proportion of them.

Yes, they only seek to murder or enslave the high-ranking "Nazis" and their supporters/enablers.

And anyone who took up arms against Russia, as only "Nazis" do such a thing.

I gotta tell ya, Russia has taken Godwins Law to a whole new stratospheric level.

 

[dudalb]

A Final Solution to the Ukrainian problem....

 

[crescent]

A few more snippets:

denazification of this mass of the population consists in re-education,

two paragraphs later:

The terms of denazification can in no way be less than one generation, which must be born, grow up and reach maturity under the conditions of denazification.

An entire generation doomed to the subjugation of communist style re-education.

The name "Ukraine" apparently cannot be retained as the title of any fully denazified state entity in a territory liberated from the Nazi regime.

Denazification will inevitably also be a de-Ukrainization

Ukraine, as history has shown, is impossible as a nation state, and attempts to "build" one naturally lead to Nazism.

They recognize that some Ukrainians will not be pro-Russian for some time, so they propose a separate Bantustan for them:

The "Catholic province" (Western Ukraine as part of five regions) is unlikely to become part of the pro-Russian territories. The line of alienation, however, will be found empirically. Behind it will remain hostile to Russia, but forcibly neutral and demilitarized Ukraine with formally banned Nazism. The haters of Russia will go there. The guarantee of the preservation of this residual Ukraine in a neutral state should be the threat of an immediate continuation of the military operation in case of non-compliance with the listed requirements. Perhaps this will require a permanent Russian military presence on its territory.

Russia will have no allies in the denazification of Ukraine. Since this is a purely Russian business.

Russia did everything possible to save the West in the 20th century.

Absolute unhinged madness - and this is the official word of the Russian Empire Nation. This is not an opinion piece from some random Russian journalist, not a Slavic version of Fox News. This is straight from the mouth of the Russian government.

Frightening stuff.


I think we are still a good long ways from any sort of mindset that might be conducive to a negotiated solution.

 

[crescent]

Another article with interviews from on high ranking Russian government person. Sergey Karaganov, works in the Kremlin, was an advisor to Yeltsin and is an advisor to Putin. (The article is in Italian [I used Google Translate] and you have to disable the ad blocker to see it.)

Sergey Karaganov: «We are at war with the West. The European security order is illegitimate»

How can you think a non-nuclear medium-sized country like Ukraine would ever attack a nuclear giant like Russia? And how can you think this is a Nazi country with a Jewish president elected with over 70% of the votes?
«Ukraine was being built by the US and other NATO countries as a spearhead, maybe of aggression or at least of military pressure, to bring NATO’s military machine closer to the heart of Russia. We can see now how well their forces had been preparing for a war. And Nazis were not only about killing jews. Nazism is about supremacy of one nation over another. Nazism is humiliation of other nations. The regime and the society in Ukraine were going very much like Germany in the 1930s».

You say that NATO promised never to enlarge to the East and Russia was cheated on that. But former Warsaw Pact countries requested to be included in NATO themselves. And Russia signed up to the Founding Act on Russia-NATO relations in 1997, accepting NATO enlargement. No cheating there.
But we know that article 5 of NATO, stating that an attack on a NATO member is an attack to all, doesn’t work. There is no automatic guarantee that NATO would come to the defense of a member under attack. Please read article 5 of the Treaty. But this enlargement is an enlargement of the aggressive alliance. It’s cancer and we wanted to stop this metastasis. We have to do it by a surgical operation. I regret we were unable to prevent such an outcome».

As for the intervention in Yugoslavia in 1999, it was made to stop a war that led to over 10,000 deaths and a UN tribunal charged Milosevic for war crimes, deportation and crimes against humanity.
«The massive killings in former Yugoslavia happened after the NATO’s rape of Serbia. People were killed on all sides. It was a civil war. It was an unspeakable aggression. And the Milosevic trial was a sad and humiliating show by petty people trying to rationalize their previous mistakes if not crimes».

It was a UN tribunal, not a EU tribunal.
«We don’t acknowledge the right of that tribunal».

So the overall goal of this war is to overturn the presence of NATO in central and eastern European countries?
«(snip) We wanted fair peace, but the greed and stupidity of the Americans and the short-sightedness of the Europeans revealed they didn’t want that. We have to correct their mistakes».

Denazification is what Ukraine seems to have proven by electing a Jewish president. Demilitarization is the opposite of what Mr. Putin has achieved (Q snipped)
«Nazism is not only about antisemitism. It is about hating and suppressing all other nationalities. And it was taking over Ukraine. We never know how the military operations end. Demilitarization means destruction of Ukrainian military forces - that is happening and will accelerate. Of course, if Ukraine is supported with new weapons, that could prolong the agony. We can only talk about “victory” in quotes, because there are many casualties on both the Russian and the Ukrainian side. The war will be victorious, in one way or another. I assume demilitarization will be achieved and there will be denazification, too. Like we did in Germany and in Chechnya. Ukrainians will become much more peaceful and friendly to us».

There is clear evidence that civilians have been targeted and killed by the Russian in Mariupol, in Bucha and elsewhere.
«The Bucha story is completely fake-staged, it’s a provocation».

It doesn’t look staged at all.
«I watched the pictures and I am 99% sure. But more in general there is a war and civilians suffer. We know that Ukrainian neoNazi forces have been using civilians as living shields, especially in Mariupol. We have different pictures with you».

The interview was published April 8, two days ago. It's got some language that could be interpreted as threatening towards Italy (the interviewer is Italian, publishing in an Italian publication). Russia still seems to be doubling down on things. This won't end any time soon.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

You know, as someone who paid attention to history, I find it ironic to blame the Ukrainians as nazis. The Russian rhetoric here seems a mix of the actual Nazis' infamous Generalplan Ost and Commissar Order. Except even those tended to be more hush-hush, the former being circulated only among the SS leadership AFAIK and the latter also including the military leadership.

That such an atrocity would be the public message is unprecedented even by actual Nazi standards.

I mean, seriously, see the interviews for example with one of Goebbels' secretaries. Maintained to her final breath that she actually believed that the Jews -- including a jewish coworker of hers who one day disappeared -- were just being colonized in the Sudetenland and such. I'll grant that that might involve a good dose of wilful ignorance on her part, but still, the point remains that even then under the actual Nazis it was at least POSSIBLE to maintain such a wilful ignorance. They didn't go to great lengths to shove it into your face that, yeah, no, we should kill everyone and deport the rest to Siberia.

 

[Norman Alexander]

The tone of those responses suggest that Karaganov has his life and/or family and/or fortune under threat if he does not spout this obvious Soviet dominionist doggerel in line with Putin's "requirements". I just get a sense he does not actually mean what he says.

 

[crescent]

Another long screed in Russia in Global Affairs.

Who we are, where we are, what we are for - and why

Less consequential than others, it mostly encourages a more insular focus for Russia, including disengaging from the west and no longer aspiring to closeness with the west. Peter the Great was wrong, basically:

The military operation of 2022 has become a major frontier. The point of no return in Russia's relations with America and Europe has been passed. And it affects the global situation in many ways.

In fact, we are talking about the rejection of part of the legacy of Peter the Great

Also, Third Rome rears its head once again:

This civilization has largely European roots, but these roots are Orthodox Christianity, adopted from Byzantium

 

[Oystein]

Another long screed in Russia in Global Affairs.

Who we are, where we are, what we are for - and why

Less consequential than others, it mostly encourages a more insular focus for Russia, including disengaging from the west and no longer aspiring to closeness with the west. Peter the Great was wrong, basically:



Also, Third Rome rears its head once again:

Sounds transparently opportunistic. As a German idiom would put it: The author is lying something into his own pocket.

 

[dudalb]

We now have two threada about this insane rant.
Tne mods should merge.

 

[Mike!]

Yes, they only seek to murder or enslave the high-ranking "Nazis" and their supporters/enablers.

And anyone who took up arms against Russia, as only "Nazis" do such a thing.

I gotta tell ya, Russia has taken Godwins Law to a whole new stratospheric level.

I'm pretty sure their goal is to be the first nation to put a Godwin in orbit.