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Trans women are not women (Part 8)

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I have seen more porn of cis women doing that, and think that in scale they are a far larger problem.

Rolfe already covered it, but I'll rephrase it in a slightly different way.

If you have seen porn of cis-women doing that, what you have seen is a performance created for the enjoyment of men.

That's not what Rolfe was talking about, and I'm almost 100% certain that it wasn't what EC was talking about, either. What they were talking about was exhibitionist males acting out their fantasies for an unwilling audience, and you don't see cis-women, or trans-men, doing that.
 
One thing I've seen very little coverage of, but which I would like to see, is the attitude of young people who have been affected by this push, and, even more so, their attitude five years later. There are American high schools who are experimenting with gender neutral locker rooms with enhanced privacy for individuals. I would like to hear from the students at those facilities, and then I would like to hear what they say about those facilities when they get together for their five year reunion.
Probably, if you raise a generation who have never known the communal culture of women's toilets as it exists today, you can kill that culture off and it will cease to be an obstacle. In the same way, perhaps you can raise a generation who thinks trans-women are women. I expect there would be unintended side effects of doing this.
 
Rolfe already covered it, but I'll rephrase it in a slightly different way.

If you have seen porn of cis-women doing that, what you have seen is a performance created for the enjoyment of men.

That's not what Rolfe was talking about, and I'm almost 100% certain that it wasn't what EC was talking about, either. What they were talking about was exhibitionist males acting out their fantasies for an unwilling audience, and you don't see cis-women, or trans-men, doing that.

"I saw some disturbing porn on the internet" is a level of cherry picking that I hadn't previously known was possible.

Edited by sarge: 
rule 12 violation removed


With all the various places that have adopted exactly these policies, you'd think there would be some meaningful evidence to support this claim. IIRC, you yourself have admitted that these bathroom freakouts seem to have been largely baseless.

Seems to me the best way to deal with the specter of exhibitionism in public spaces is to prohibit exhibitionism in public spaces, which is almost certainly already the case in most contexts.
 
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I'm just wondering about all those people who are aware of staged public-toilet-masturbation pornography. I mean, what on earth were you looking for that you found that?

Conversely, all you need is a twitter account to be aware of fetishistic men posting selfies of themselves masturbating in women's toilets, in the presence of other users who are certainly not part of a "cast". You will not find equivalent pictures of women doing anything at all like that.
 
I'm just wondering about all those people who are aware of staged public-toilet-masturbation pornography. I mean, what on earth were you looking for that you found that?

Conversely, all you need is a twitter account to be aware of fetishistic men posting selfies of themselves masturbating in women's toilets, in the presence of other users who are certainly not part of a "cast". You will not find equivalent pictures of women doing anything at all like that.

I am of the understanding that "public sex" is a type of kink/porn theme that is quite common generally.

I have no idea how you would begin to quantify or analyze the demographics of such behavior, but then again, I'm not the one claiming that trans women have some unique relationship on this specific transgression.
 
MEN have a unique "relationship" on that specific transgression. If you find images of a woman doing it, this is not something she's indulging in for her own personal pleasure, but because she has been engaged to take part in a staged performance.

The men who do this in women's bathrooms manage to get in there because they claim a trans identity.
 
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I'm just wondering about all those people who are aware of staged public-toilet-masturbation pornography. I mean, what on earth were you looking for that you found that?

Conversely, all you need is a twitter account to be aware of fetishistic men posting selfies of themselves masturbating in women's toilets, in the presence of other users who are certainly not part of a "cast". You will not find equivalent pictures of women doing anything at all like that.

There is a lot of amateur exhibitionist porn out there. Mostly of women doing things in public. It’s hard to say whose benefit it is for. As amateur may or may not be compensated. But I’m comfident there are a significant number of exhibitionist women.
 
I'm just wondering about all those people who are aware of staged public-toilet-masturbation pornography. I mean, what on earth were you looking for that you found that?

This thread.

But for people who didn't hear about it here, that's an interesting question.

One subset of the answers would be, "I don't have to see it. I just know it's there, because everything is there."
 
MEN have a unique "relationship" on that specific transgression. If you find images of a woman doing it, this is not something she's indulging in for her own personal pleasure, but because she has been engaged to take part in a staged performance.

The men who do this in women's bathrooms manage to get in there because they claim a trans identity.

Now would be the time to support any of these claims with data. ya know, skeptics forum and all that.
 
Now would be the time to support any of these claims with data. ya know, skeptics forum and all that.

Friendly reminder that the last two studies you brought up (on the safety of puberty blockers and of women in mixed-sex changing rooms) turned out not to say what you or the authors claimed and you are yet to address this
 
There is a lot of amateur exhibitionist porn out there. Mostly of women doing things in public. It’s hard to say whose benefit it is for. As amateur may or may not be compensated. But I’m comfident there are a significant number of exhibitionist women.

uhh....a friend told me about some of this porn....so....uhh.


In all seriousness, though. There are things called "exhibitionism" that are indulged in by both men and women, but although they go by the same name, they aren't the same thing.

I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole. For anyone interested, Nancy Friday's work is no longer ground-breaking or novel, but it's still valid and accessible.

Be that as it may, the acts that Rolfe and Emily's Cat are describing are unique* to males. Some of them are, or claim to be, transwomen. That's just reality.

SuburbanTurkey thinks it is very rare. So rare that we shouldn't let it bother us when we talk about bathrooms and who can use them. Well, he might be right. I'll take my cue from the people who are actually affected by it. i.e. the majority of users of women's bathrooms.

And to the point Darat made, maybe the next generation of users of women's bathrooms will view things differently than my generation or the generation (s) that have followed. When that happens, then I'll say there's no problem. Of course, that's easy enough for me to say. It isn't a problem for me, regardless.


*And someone, somewhere, can find some female doing an equivalent thing. Go home. That's missing the point.
 
SuburbanTurkey thinks it is very rare. So rare that we shouldn't let it bother us when we talk about bathrooms and who can use them. Well, he might be right. I'll take my cue from the people who are actually affected by it. i.e. the majority of users of women's bathrooms.

I have no idea how rare or common it is. Nothing even resembling a falsifiable claim has been made. I suspect Rolfe or anyone else here knows either. Much like previous assertions of the Public Toilet Trans Menace, proof is conspicuously absent.

People engaging in sex acts surreptitiously in public is something that is hard to know, assuming they intend to remain undetected. I assume some are occasionally caught, either intentionally or because of carelessness.

As far as I know, there have been dudes jerking off in every adjacent public toilet I've ever used in my life and I just didn't notice. I'm not willing to make sweeping generalizations about whole categories of people based on some vague fear that I can't even begin to approximate.

ETA: I presume a variety of unsavory behaviors have happened in public toilets I would not approve of. People probably have engaged in sex, used illicit drugs, bought cryptocurrency, and done all manner of other unsavory acts. I guess I'm just glad there's divider walls to separate us all in these situations.
 
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I'm not willing to make sweeping generalizations about whole categories of people based on some vague fear that I can't even begin to approximate.

Neither is Rolfe, EC, me, or anyone else in the conversation. You are making a straw man argument, there, although I think a true straw man has to be intentional, and I don't think yours is intentional.


Hmmm....No True Straw Man.......
 
Neither is Rolfe, EC, me, or anyone else in the conversation. You are making a straw man argument, there, although I think a true straw man has to be intentional, and I don't think yours is intentional.


Hmmm....No True Straw Man.......

Pretty hard to straw man this position. Only men or women trying to please men do this act apparently. Citation: Dude, trust me.

MEN have a unique "relationship" on that specific transgression. If you find images of a woman doing it, this is not something she's indulging in for her own personal pleasure, but because she has been engaged to take part in a staged performance.

The men who do this in women's bathrooms manage to get in there because they claim a trans identity.
 
I have no idea how rare or common it is. Nothing even resembling a falsifiable claim has been made. I suspect Rolfe or anyone else here knows either. Much like previous assertions of the Public Toilet Trans Menace, proof is conspicuously absent.

People engaging in sex acts surreptitiously in public is something that is hard to know, assuming they intend to remain undetected. I assume some are occasionally caught, either intentionally or because of carelessness.

As far as I know, there have been dudes jerking off in every adjacent public toilet I've ever used in my life and I just didn't notice. I'm not willing to make sweeping generalizations about whole categories of people based on some vague fear that I can't even begin to approximate.

ETA: I presume a variety of unsavory behaviors have happened in public toilets I would not approve of. People probably have engaged in sex, used illicit drugs, bought cryptocurrency, and done all manner of other unsavory acts. I guess I'm just glad there's divider walls to separate us all in these situations.
This. :thumbsup:

In more than 60 plus years of using public restrooms, i have encountered only once anyone engaging in sexual activities. And that was a heterosexual couple in a nightclub. And i never saw that either as their were dividers.

I'm sure it is possible that I was unaware. But that begs the question. Why would I care about that?
 
Weight classes in sports are lame.

Belated congratulations!

You just scored the Dumbest Comment in History Award. Why don't we let a 54 kg bloke fight Tyson Fury?
___________________________

Meanwhile, in a day for complete surprises, Boris Johnson made sense and said something I agree with for the first time ever:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/61012030

I don't think biological males should be competing in female sporting events...

I also happen to think that women should have spaces - whether it's in hospitals, prison or changing rooms - which are dedicated to women.
 
This. :thumbsup:

In more than 60 plus years of using public restrooms, i have encountered only once anyone engaging in sexual activities. And that was a heterosexual couple in a nightclub. And i never saw that either as their were dividers.

I'm sure it is possible that I was unaware. But that begs the question. Why would I care about that?

How many times have you used the women's toilets in 60 years?
 
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