Are you serious? Because I can’t see how a serious person can support such hate speech.
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Trans women are not women (Part 8)
- Thread starter Meadmaker
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Are you serious? Because I can’t see how a serious person can support such hate speech.
Do you want to tie this into the trans discussion?
May have missed their follow up post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=13775167#post13775167
Rolfe
Adult human female
Yes. The problem lesbians are facing is that their dating apps are over-run by AGP transwomen claiming to be "lesbians" and vilifying any lesbian who doesn't want to date a man as being a transphobe who needs to unlearn her "genital fetish". Apparently lesbians should be queueing up to have penetrative lesbian sex with their lady dicks and lady souls.
Just recently a lesbian dating app implemented a hardline policy against "transphobia", encouraging reporting of any lesbian who said she didn't want to date someone with a penis.
Do you think it should be legal for a less woke lesbian dating app to set itself up and exclude males of all descriptions?
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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Cotton ceiling. Can they exclude transwomen? If not, then it's not a female-only dating app.
Rolfe
Adult human female
The point is, it depends on the question, and what the person answering understands by the question. If you ask do you believe any man who declares "I am a woman" but who retains his male genitalia is a woman, the answers start to get different.
You seem to be - again - using the extremists as a proxy for an entire demographic? I know quite a few lesbians, when I'm next chatting with my friends I'm going to ask about this, none have ever as far as I can recall mentioned this "over run". Have you links to evidence for it?
As far as I knew dating apps are free to filter people how ever they want. Are they not?
FTFY. Seriously whether you think people are right or wrong some people do use different definitions than you. To some people it would be as you see it, for others it wouldn't.
One of the difficulties is that when these policies are being advocated, they are sold as "do you support trans-women having access to female changing rooms", not "do you support a bearded autogynephile with an erection towelling himself down in front of your 11 year old daughter." Women are overwhelmingly more in favour of these policies than men are. Parties that skew female in their support are far more in favour of these policies.
Exactly, and I think Darat knows that.
shuttlt has provided evidence that with a quick scan through looks like it backs up their claim - do you have evidence for your counter claim?
Rolfe
Adult human female
Lesbians who are in stable relationships are not impacted by this, so you may not have come across it depending on your circle of acquaintance. It seems to be a particular complaint from young lesbians who have recently come out and are looking to enter the dating scene.
I don't know whether it's legal to exclude men who identify as lesbians from a dating app or not. The men seem to think it isn't. I wondered whether you thought lesbian dating apps were something that should be covered by the single-sex exemptions.
I don't know whether it's legal to exclude men who identify as lesbians from a dating app or not. The men seem to think it isn't. I wondered whether you thought lesbian dating apps were something that should be covered by the single-sex exemptions.
Know what? Rolfe hasn't supported her claims, shuttit has.
And polling organisations are very aware of the importance of how questions are worded, good ones work very hard to avoid leading questions.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Female socialisation to "be kind" and always give way to the feelings of the other party is a terrible thing. It has its limits though.
If you remember the Wii Spa thing, the press and commentators and 90% of Twitter immediately assumed the man in the women's changing room was a transwoman and so supported his right to be there (exposing himself to young girls) as a matter of principle. It turned out that he was indeed a transwoman, but one with a history of serious sexual offences against women. Opinion shifted at that point.
My own take was a little different. Suppose that exact situation happens, and the man says, I'm trans, call the cops on that transphobic bitch who is guilty of literal violence against me - what happens? Nobody is allowed to ask for proof of trans status. The "transwoman" must be taken at his word. What is to stop any voyeur, exposer, rapist or general creep simply marching in there and stripping off, and then playing the "I'm a woman" card? As far as I know the Wii Spa offender was only outed as being an undesirable because of his past convictions. If there is no criminal history there, what is to stop any man doing this, then reverting to his usual persona once he's round the corner.
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Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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No, you didn't. You tried to ruin it.
People who use such a definition for "female" are wrong. That isn't what the word means. This is even worse than the Humpty Dumpty theory of language, where you get to make up your own definitions. This is an attempt to force everyone to adopt new definitions. It is positively Orwellian, an attempt to enact thought control through the use of what language is permitted and what is not.
Transwomen are not female. Female refers to biology, sex is a fundamental biological property, and given current and foreseeable future technology, humans cannot change their fundamental biology.
They are not female. This is not my opinion. This is biological fact.
I've just looked and there are a number of dating apps that seem to be dedicated to a wide range of different demographics. Given the number I'm going to assume that it isn't illegal to filter by those demographics - which seems to include everything from sex to if you ride a motorbike to what sort of sexual acts you like. I don't know how they regulate and ensure that only the right demographic uses the app and please excuse me for not downloading a load of them to find out.
To the bigger question - I think everyone should be free to decide who they find attractive - it's none of my business.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Well in that case let's go with the legal definitions.
I realise that the trans lobby is trying to (mis)appropriate "female" as well as "woman" to get around this, but for the moment the definition would be what appears on your birth certificate. Since practically none of these men have had their birth certificates falsified, that should clarify matters.
As I said whether you think people are right or wrong some people do use different definitions than you. To some people it would be as you see it, for others it wouldn't. Language is like that.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Sure, fine. So you believe it ought to be legal to run a dating app for lesbians which specifically excludes anyone with a biological male body, functional SRY gene and androgen receptors, define it how you will?
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