Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VIII

MicahJava said:
Hank has been grumbling and meandering for two decades, which is nothing to say of the other lone nutters that have existed.
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Nope. Hank, like me, was once a JFK CT nutjob. And one day he bothered look into the facts on both sides, and found the conspiracy crew to be lacking anything solid other than the dead bodies of JFK, Tippit, and Oswald. Then he read the entire Warren Commission report, and learned that almost every claim about the finding being wrong was a lie. And most of those who claimed conspiracy had anterior motives: money, notoriety, and a fierce anti-American background.

After all, some people couldn't live with the idea that a self-styled Marxist revolutionary had murdered JFK. As the 60s progressed, and the Vietnam War unfolded, and young Americans began smoking pot, public perceptions became easily warped. Actual conspiracies by Nixon only fueled the cottage industry of JFK-CTs into an industry. Each new CT built on the previous, while contradicting the claims in order to seat itself as the "true facts".

The realization Hank, and folks like me had once we realized we'd been taken by a bunch scam artists left us with three options: We could shut up and move on with life. We could bury our heads back between our legs until we found a newer, shinier JFK-CT to embrace. Or we could get even with liars and fools like you by calling your bluffs, and dragging your sad theories out into the light where they disintegrate like a rotten sponge.

Doesn't matter if you ever see the light. We don't care. All that matters is how easily your claims get destroyed each time you trot them out after yet another fringe reset.

These are the fact that you and all the others have failed to dispute in any way:

1 - Two of three shots fired from the 6th Floor of the TSBD struck the limo, killing JFK, and wounding Governor Connally.

2 - Those shots were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald, who owned the Italian-made Carcano, 6.5x.52mm. Those rounds were recovered from the car, JFK-s skull, and Connally's stretcher.

3 - Oswald was the only TSBD employee to leave the building after the shooting.

4. Oswald shot DPD officer JD Tippit , and attempted to shoot a second policeman with his .38. This is the same .38 revolver Oswald has in the backyard photo with him holding the Carcano he'd use to shoot the President.

Nobody has been able get around these facts since 1963. Every CT has tried so very hard to add a second gunman in Dealey Plaza, and all have failed. It's nothing more than a ghost and bigfoot story.
 
MicahJava said:
You: Two decades of grumbling that went nowhere.

Me: 6 years of fact-checking and information-sorting.

Guess what? The JFK conspiracy crowd has the forensic evidence nailed down.
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Stomping on the floor and saying I'm right! doesn't count for much. You have been handed your ass so much in this thread it's ridiculous.

If the JFK conspiracy crowd have nailed the forensic evidence, just why do they so often distort it? Like the "magic bullet" nonsense for example or their fantasy that the head moving back "proves" where the shot came from. (In 2013 Errol Morris made a short documentary about the implications of this "fact". One more reason to distrust Morris.)
 
Pacal said:
Stomping on the floor and saying I'm right! doesn't count for much. You have been handed your ass so much in this thread it's ridiculous.

If the JFK conspiracy crowd have nailed the forensic evidence, just why do they so often distort it? Like the "magic bullet" nonsense for example or their fantasy that the head moving back "proves" where the shot came from. (In 2013 Errol Morris made a short documentary about the implications of this "fact". One more reason to distrust Morris.)
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I'll say this again...

I am open to the idea that Oswald might be linked to Cubans, pro or anti-Castro (makes no difference). There are a few gaps in his time-line which raise questions. BUT, as of now, there is NO EVIDENCE to link him to anyone, and the known evidence proves Oswald was the lone shooter of JFK.

The problem with the CTists from Day One has been the emphasis on speculation over evidence. Worse, each theory begins with JFK was murdered by: *evil doer/political entity/cabal/Jews/big corporation* in order to facilitate: *Vietnam, make LBJ President, prevent the destruction of the CIA, or whatever *. From this position the CT is shaped by cherry-picking actual evidence, and fabricating the rest. These people all NEED JFK's murder to be part of a larger plot to justify they world view.

Nothing wrong with questioning the Warren Commission, and the HSCA findings; people should always be a little skeptical about these things. But it is important to base questions on facts.

Here's a great website which underscores this point:

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/about.aspx

Here you find hundreds of criminal cases overturned, and the accused exonerated with new evidence. People, honest people, have tried to do this with Oswald over the years, and have failed. But by reading through the serious cases on this website it is clear that one had new physical evidence, usually DNA, and in cases of police/prosecutorial misconduct, there is certified documentation of these acts.

Not one case has been overturned by speculation and or wild claims.

Another example: The USS Ward

On December 7, 1941, the USS Ward reported that it had fire on, and sunk a mini-sub off the coast of Oahu, Hawaii. The report, and the incident was officially disputed by the US Navy as a misidentification, and that no mini-sub had been sunk. Not until 2002, when researchers located the wreck - WITH THE IMPACT FROM THE SHELL FIRED BY THE WARD IN THE EXACT LOCATION REPORTED.

Again, a case resolved with physical evidence. While it adds to the story of Pearl Harbor, and underlines the US Navy's lax attitude toward base security, it doesn't change the big picture. It just changes the body count by two.

Over the years some new evidence will pop up from the JFK Assassination, but it never changes anything. My favorite on is when the HSCA fingerprint expert actually found MORE of Oswald's prints on the Carcano that the FBI had missed. Oops.

And finally, with most of the classified documents released from the National Archives it is clear that there was a full-court press to link Oswald to a conspiracy from the night of 11/22/1963. All one has to do is compare the documents with those concerning known CIA/Government conspiracies and cover-ups to see how the FBI and CIA behaved in a way that is consistent with being caught off guard, and then working within a framework forced upon them by RFK to keep Mongoose, and JMWAVE secret. But the FBI never stopped investigating the assassination.
 
MicahJava said:
May as well casually mention that we may or may not be on the cusp of having physical proof of a conspiracy. From over a year ago now, here is the Youtube video of the updated version of Angelos Leiloglou's 3d model of Dealey Plaza - just watch 90 seconds in to 16:03: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niyDUSF02Zc&t=963s

Of course, it will take further verification that this is the one and only true interpretation of the photographic/geometrical evidence in Dealey Plaza. And even if the Single Bullet Theory were proven false, we may even see years of copium for the possibility of the official story being true without the single bullet theory being true.
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Actually this pretty much confirms the plausibility that a single bullet hit Kennedy and the Governor.

Unless they are claiming to have better than a two inch margin of error then this is close enough that, should Kennedy have been just a little further leaning into that corner and the Governor just a little leaned the other way and a little more leaned back then it lines up perfectly. Is a couple of inches here and there really going to be detectable on the grain size of 8 mm film?
 
Robin said:
Actually this pretty much confirms the plausibility that a single bullet hit Kennedy and the Governor.

Unless they are claiming to have better than a two inch margin of error then this is close enough that, should Kennedy have been just a little further leaning into that corner and the Governor just a little leaned the other way and a little more leaned back then it lines up perfectly. Is a couple of inches here and there really going to be detectable on the grain size of 8 mm film?
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His computer model is wrong. He has the governor sitting too far to the right of where the film shows him sitting AND where the jump seat is actually located.

The trajectory from the 6th floor through JFK, and into Connally is accurate, and has been recreated with real bullets. Attempts to recreate a shot from the Grassy Knoll consistently result in the complete destruction of head, not to mention killing Jackie.

Wishful thinking falls way short of the ballistic science.
 
It strikes me how much both Lee Harvey Oswald and the JFK assassination itself, function as Rorschach tests.

Innocent patsy? CIA agent provocateur? Soviet or Cuban agent? Mafia hitman? Choose your own adventure. There’s enough strangeness and weird borderline behavior about Oswald and his background that you can spin pretty much any conspiracy theory about the assassination.

Ruby killing Oswald before he went to trial certainly didn’t help matters, nor did the tumult and scandals later in the 60s and 70s that undermined Americans’ trust in government, or the other assassinations like those of MLK and JFK’s own brother. And then there was the Camelot propaganda fed to the media and public by Jackie and the extended Kennedy family and network, alongside the scores of assassination conspiracy theory books, Oliver Stone’s film, etc.

In light of all this, people understandably started to believe that perhaps JFK was indeed the victim of a conspiracy, and that people in the CIA/FBI/military were involved. And down the rabbit hole they went. Very unfortunate, and we’re all living with the absolutely corrosive consequences almost six decades on from November 22, 1963.
 
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Axxman300 said:
His computer model is wrong. He has the governor sitting too far to the right of where the film shows him sitting AND where the jump seat is actually located.

The trajectory from the 6th floor through JFK, and into Connally is accurate, and has been recreated with real bullets. Attempts to recreate a shot from the Grassy Knoll consistently result in the complete destruction of head, not to mention killing Jackie.

Wishful thinking falls way short of the ballistic science.
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That is more or less what I am.sayo.g too. Their animation is presumably a best effort to disprove that a single bullet caused all the initial injuries but it actually supports it because it comes within a couple of inches of the actual injuries to Conally which are just a matter of him being a couple of inches further right than he was.
 
Robin said:
That is more or less what I am.sayo.g too. Their animation is presumably a best effort to disprove that a single bullet caused all the initial injuries but it actually supports it because it comes within a couple of inches of the actual injuries to Conally which are just a matter of him being a couple of inches further right than he was.
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I love that they line up the shot, and go to all of that work hoping nobody notices they make the same mistake Mark Lane did in 1964, and Garrison did in the early 70s by putting Connally too far to the right, even though it is clear in all of the still pictures from the parade route.

The other hilarious point is MJ has bought into the theory that JFK's throat wound came from the front, and yet his current go-to crap video evidence proves the shot came from behind.
 
Axxman300 said:
I love that they line up the shot, and go to all of that work hoping nobody notices they make the same mistake Mark Lane did in 1964, and Garrison did in the early 70s by putting Connally too far to the right, even though it is clear in all of the still pictures from the parade route.

The other hilarious point is MJ has bought into the theory that JFK's throat wound came from the front, and yet his current go-to crap video evidence proves the shot came from behind.
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I must say that, at the very least from the 2021 video posted, the shoulders of Connally's jacket do look too fluffy around the soldiers.
 
Robin said:
That is more or less what I am.sayo.g too. Their animation is presumably a best effort to disprove that a single bullet caused all the initial injuries but it actually supports it because it comes within a couple of inches of the actual injuries to Conally which are just a matter of him being a couple of inches further right than he was.
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I shouldn't have to post this again... but I'm going to... its an excellent debunk of the magic bullet :D

SBT.gif
 
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smartcooky said:
I shouldn't have to post this again... but I'm going to... its an excellent debunk of the magic bullet :D

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ad8w0ljg0ozb30w/SBT.gif?raw=1[/qimg]
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You are a modern day JFK Sisyphus and you are cursed to keep repeating the same information on the assassination - forever.
 
MicahJava said:
I must say that, at the very least from the 2021 video posted, the shoulders of Connally's jacket do look too fluffy around the soldiers.
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From this remark it sounds as though you don't understand the significance of Conally's position with respect to the question of whether the wounds line up.
 
smartcooky said:
I shouldn't have to post this again... but I'm going to... its an excellent debunk of the magic bullet :D

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ad8w0ljg0ozb30w/SBT.gif?raw=1[/qimg]
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I come into the conversation late, until fairly recently I only really knew the terms "grassy knoll" and "book depository" and the Seinfeld parody of the Oliver Stone film.

It is a good illustration and, again, more or less what I said.

And, not that it makes any difference, I believe Conally was turning to the left.
 
MicahJava said:
You: Two decades of grumbling that went nowhere.

Me: 6 years of fact-checking and information-sorting.

Guess what? The JFK conspiracy crowd has the forensic evidence nailed down.
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You're funny. Welcome back for another go-round.

Explain how Oswald's rifle wound up at the Depository if Oswald didn't bring it in.

Explain how Oswald's rifle was used to kill Kennedy if Oswald didn't use it.

You have the forensic evidence nailed down?

Start there. Cite the evidence, not the hasty assumptions and the minority of witnesses that offer discrepancies not supported by the hard evidence.
 
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MicahJava said:
De Mohrenschidt's alleged physician, Dr. Charles Mendoza, is a very interesting obscure figure in the case. Died just a few years ago after practicing medicine for years in Texas. Who knows.
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Who knows? That's the best you can do?

If you don't care to make a case beyond innuendo, we don't care to rebut it.
 
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