Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2)

[Andy_Ross]

Swedish media reports, the Russian jets that entered Swedish airspace earlier this month were carrying nuclear warheads.

Bollocks.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I don't know, and they don't say.

Here's the news report, Google translated from Swedish.

It's a serious Swedish broadcaster, so I don't see any reason to doubt them.

How would they know?

Did they go aboard and have a look?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Because this war is in our own yard.

Maybe for Europe, but Ukraine is no more in the US's yard than any other overseas battleground of recent history.

WHat would you do?

All things considered, I think Biden has actually done a decent job in a very difficult situation. Much of this is out of his control, but resisting the calls from the most deranged natsec ghouls to touch off WWIII is very much appreciated, and supplying Ukraine so long as they have the will to fight seems a good play. It remains to be seen how the US will behave if Ukraine and Russia actually start hammering out a peace deal.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't know, and they don't say.

Maybe they got confused with the distinction between jets that are capable of carrying nukes (which can be easily determined at a distance) and jets that are carrying nukes (hard or impossible to tell at a distance).

It's a serious Swedish broadcaster, so I don't see any reason to doubt them.

That seems like a mistake to me. Why the blind faith?

 

[Ziggurat]

Maybe for Europe, but Ukraine is no more in the US's yard than any other overseas battleground of recent history.

OK, here's another reason. Russia is our strategic enemy. Letting them have free reign in Ukraine represents a strategic risk that we should not just accept.

Or another: Ukraine is a major food exporter to the middle east, and war in Ukraine could possibly destabilize the middle east, leading to huge negative global consequences.

 

[Ryokan]

Maybe they got confused with the distinction between jets that are capable of carrying nukes (which can be easily determined at a distance) and jets that are carrying nukes (hard or impossible to tell at a distance).

No. We have been very well aware of what kind of planes they were.

That seems like a mistake to me. Why the blind faith?

I don't see why a serious broadcaster would suddenly throw their reputation away by making up wild claims. Mainstream media in Scandinavia is trusted by the public, and they are trusted because they have earned it.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

OK, here's another reason. Russia is our strategic enemy. Letting them have free reign in Ukraine represents a strategic risk that we should not just accept.

Well, yeah, obviously that's why. This isn't what you see the pundits saying when you turn on the TV though. The selective invocation of non-aggression as a general principal is pretty brazen in this case, but none of these people are going to be swayed by this in other contexts.

Or another: Ukraine is a major food exporter to the middle east, and war in Ukraine could possibly destabilize the middle east, leading to huge negative global consequences.

The risks of destabilization has never stopped us from supporting a war before. I mean, what you say is pretty obviously true, but it's also true of most other conflicts the American public rubber stamps with approval all the time.

 

[jimbob]

How would they know?

Did they go aboard and have a look?

The translate says that the Russian pilots were very clear about that.

And later

The air force deployed two JAS 39 Gripen that could meet away and take pictures of the intruders. That was when it was confirmed that the Russian planes were equipped with nuclear weapons.

If the aircraft don't have an internal weapons bay, which many pre-stealth strike aircraft don't, then one would see any missiles it carries.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Maybe for Europe, but Ukraine is no more in the US's yard than any other overseas battleground of recent history.

In effect it is. It's on the borders of NATO and looks like it could drag NATO in.
That means it is in the US back yard.

 

[Andy_Ross]

No. We have been very well aware of what kind of planes they were.





I don't see why a serious broadcaster would suddenly throw their reputation away by making up wild claims. Mainstream media in Scandinavia is trusted by the public, and they are trusted because they have earned it.

Maybe they should check before making wild claims then.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The translate says that the Russian pilots were very clear about that.

And later


If the aircraft don't have an internal weapons bay, which many pre-stealth strike aircraft don't, then one would see any missiles it carries.

I still say it's all bollocks.

 

[BobTheCoward]

OK, here's another reason. Russia is our strategic enemy.

I ain’t got no quarrel with them Russian.

 

[Ryokan]

Maybe they should check before making wild claims then.

Just because they don't name their source doesn't mean they haven't checked it out thoroughly.

Anyway, I'm done with it. It was just an interesting tidbit in this whole affair. Make of it what you want, or not.

 

[Andy_Ross]

"The Armed Forces does not want to comment on whether the two attack planes were equipped with nuclear weapons"

 

[Jimbo07]

"The Armed Forces does not want to comment on whether the two attack planes were equipped with nuclear weapons"

so... not bollocks, then (at least, not easily gainsaid by us, the public)?

Intercepting planes can see/photograph details like external stores. What do the intercepting pilots know that the public doesn't? What don't they know? Were they actually nuclear-tipped missiles (not easily identifiable)? Were they a known model of nuclear-capable missiles (more easily identifiable), warhead status unknown?

 

[theprestige]

I don't know, and they don't say.

Here's the news report, Google translated from Swedish.

It's a serious Swedish broadcaster, so I don't see any reason to doubt them.

According to "unnamed sources". The claim in the article is that the nuclear weapons are "omething that the Russian pilots were clear about." This suggests that the pilots made radio contact with the Swedish air force or other entities and declared they were nuclear-armed. The unnamed sources could be civilians who heard the broadcast on a clear radio channel, or Swedish military sources. Or they could be intelligence sources that have more intimate knowledge of flight operations at the air base in question.

But the named military source in the article has no comment.

There may be no reason to doubt the sincerity of the broadcaster, but they don't present enough evidence to assume the planes really were nuclear-armed, rather than this being Russian bluster or posturing, or some bit of false intelligence making its way into the mainstream media.

 

[theprestige]

Just because they don't name their source doesn't mean they haven't checked it out thoroughly.

What kind of thorough checkout is even necessary, though? All they're doing is reporting what they've been told, by an ostensibly-reputable source. Since we don't know who that source is, we just have to trust them that we can trust their source.

That's one too many anonymous degrees of separation for my taste. My view is that media outlets should refrain from reporting anonymous claims. If an anonymous source points them in the direction of a verifiable public record, or leads them to a source that's willing to be named in conjunction with the claim, fine. Use the actual on-the-record source for the report.

 

[Arcade22]

Meet the real Supreme Commander of Most Holy Russian Army and tremble in fear:

The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has promoted Ramzan Kadyrov to lieutenant-general for his role in the invasion of Ukraine, which the Chechen leader is using to showcase his loyalty to Moscow and his own impunity, Emma Graham-Harrison and Vera Mironova report.

This week Kadyrov claimed that a key ally linked to the 2015 murder of the Russian opposition leader, Boris Nemtsov, was injured fighting in the besieged port city of Mariupol.

Rustam Geremeev was pictured in hospital, where Kadyrov visited him. Earlier videos the Chechen leader posted calling Geremeev a “dear brother” claimed to show him on the frontlines in Mariupol, including at the city hall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...08be3348fe5e2f#block-62447e828f08be3348fe5e2f

 

[xjx388]

Thread continues here.

Posted By: xjx388