Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2)

[timhau]

I'm a bit ashamed to admit that I almost always read Donbass as "Dumbass". I blame Red Forman.

I've been pronouncing it like that since late February.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Russian negotiator Vladimir Medinsky is speaking following yesterday's talks in Istanbul, at which Russia said it would pull back from Kyiv and Chernihiv.

He says talks with Ukraine are continuing but adds that Russia's position on Crimea and the Donbas region has not changed.

Medinsky says Ukraine has stated a willingness to meet Russia's core demands. He says if it sticks to its promises then "the threat of a Nato stronghold" in Ukraine will be removed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/wor...445b7f1fea84616a6cd4a4&pinned_post_type=share

Edited by xjx388: 

Edited to make content quoted from elsewhere clear.

 

[SpitfireIX]

From ABC (US) News:

Putin advisers 'afraid to tell him' about Russian military performance

U.S. intelligence said it believes Russian President Vladimir Putin is being misinformed by his advisers on his troops' performance in Ukraine "because his senior advisors are too afraid to tell him the truth," a U.S. official told ABC News.

Based on declassified intelligence, the official said, "We have information that Putin felt misled by the Russian military. There is now persistent tension between Putin and the MOD [Ministry of Defence], stemming from Putin’s mistrust in MOD leadership. Putin didn’t even know his military was using and losing conscripts in Ukraine, showing a clear breakdown in the flow of accurate information to the Russian President."

The official continued: "We believe that Putin is being misinformed by his advisors about how badly the Russian military is performing and how the Russian economy is being crippled by sanctions, because his senior advisors are too afraid to tell him the truth."​

If true, and there's every reason to believe that it is, this is probably a bad thing on balance, because it means Putin is less likely to seek a negotiated solution. OTOH, I suppose theoretically it could be good if it means he's less likely to escalate.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Downfall without the happy ending

 

[trustbutverify]

SuPo, the Finnish intelligence service, gave a press conference yesterday saying Russia is the number threat to Finland's security right now and warned that we should all be nice to the Russians as the Russian Embassy has asked them to report to them any signs of unfriendliness from the Finnish people. Russians are by far the largest ethnic minority in Finland, with 32,000 of them. I am not aware of any tensions with the Russian contingent. It is little wonder nobody trusts them when they come out with stasi-style nonsense like this.

The idea that Putin will be reasonable and retreat to just stick to Donetsk and Luhanska should there be a peace agreement indicates that people still don't get that Russia has no code of honour.

If in retreat, it needs to be beaten back into its own borders. Decisively.

Nothing Putin signs is worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Galaxie]

Saw this poll today:

Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine

What the hell is wrong with the 18-29 year olds?

 

[jimbob]

Saw this poll today:

Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine

What the hell is wrong with the 18-29 year olds?

Beau of the Fifth Column's take on this



TLDW: Because they have grown up after the Cold War and when Iraq and Afghanistan were the most high profile Western and NATO operations. All their life, they've not experienced why NATO was formed, which was to protect our countries from a totalitarian dictatorship on a par with the Nazis.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Beau of the Fifth Column's take on this



TLDW: Because they have grown up after the Cold War and when Iraq and Afghanistan were the most high profile Western and NATO operations. All their life, they've not experienced why NATO was formed, which was to protect our countries from a totalitarian dictatorship on a par with the Nazis.

I do find the reaction to this particular act of aggression very strange. My entire life I've been watching people far away get bombed into pink paste by powerful, aggressive countries. Often that country was the US. There was always protest of some sort or another, but none of it compares to the pearl clutching we're supposed to engage in for Ukraine.

I'm just as sympathetic to Ukrainians as I am to Palestinians or Afghans or Yemenis or Kurds or Ethiopians or Iraqis or any of the other poorer, browner people that I guess didn't have the right stuff for people to care about all these years. I wonder where all these people who are screaming from the rooftops about sovereignty or civilian casualties of war have been all these last decades.

I'm glad that Russian invasion and atrocities in Ukraine is getting the attention that such wantonly inhumane acts always deserve. I am deeply cynical as to the motivations behind this sudden interest in humanitarian concerns in a country that has been perfectly content to make global suffering a back burner issue, but I suppose you gotta take the few wins when you find them.

 

[theprestige]

So I'm not the only one who thinks of that song when they talk about NLAWs.

Heh.

Anyway, in case anyone cares:

LAW: Light Antitank Weapon - a post-bazooka evolution of the anti-tank unguided rocket.

VLAW: Very Light Antitank Weapon - a further evolution of the unguided rocket

SMAW: Shoulder-Launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon - modern tank armor makes anti-tank rockets less effective, but the same system can be used on thinner-skinned targets. Specialized warheads for clearing enclosed spaces are developed. Another unguided rocket.

NLAW: Next generation Light Anti-tank Weapon - A guided missile. Much larger and heavier than previous light anti-tank weapons, to accommodate the guidance system and the larger warhead necessary for penetrating modern tank armor. A UK product.

Javelin - Another variation on the guided anti-tank missile theme, similar to the NLAW. A US product.

Ukraine is also getting shipments of Swedish AT-4s, a modern take on the classic bazooka, and American Switchblades, a remote-controlled flying grenade.

 

[jimbob]

I do find the reaction to this particular act of aggression very strange. My entire life I've been watching people far away get bombed into pink paste by powerful, aggressive countries. Often that country was the US. There was always protest of some sort or another, but none of it compares to the pearl clutching we're supposed to engage in for Ukraine.

I'm just as sympathetic to Ukrainians as I am to Palestinians or Afghans or Yemenis or Kurds or Ethiopians or Iraqis or any of the other poorer, browner people that I guess didn't have the right stuff for people to care about all these years. I wonder where all these people who are screaming from the rooftops about sovereignty or civilian casualties of war have been all these last decades.

I'm glad that Russian invasion and atrocities in Ukraine is getting the attention that such wantonly inhumane acts always deserve. I am deeply cynical as to the motivations behind this sudden interest in humanitarian concerns in a country that has been perfectly content to make global suffering a back burner issue, but I suppose you gotta take the few wins when you find them.

The first time a B52 was used to bomb part of Asia it was closer to the battle of the Somme than it was to the most recent time.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The first time a B52 was used to bomb part of Asia it was closer to the battle of the Somme than it was to the most recent time.

Neat trivia, not sure what I'm supposed to make of it though.

 

[Lplus]

Saw this poll today:

Our polling reveals a striking generational divide on Ukraine

What the hell is wrong with the 18-29 year olds?

Maybe they're republicans...

 

[Jack by the hedge]

NLAW: Next generation Light Anti-tank Weapon - A guided missile. Much larger and heavier than previous...

When they develop an even bigger one can it be the Mother NLAW?

 

[Arcade22]

Syrian fighters are being offer £5,000 a month to fight on the front line for Russia in the war against Ukraine, the BBC has learned.
One Syrian soldier who’s volunteered to fight said he believed Russia was carrying out a massacre in Ukraine, but it was also helping poor Syrians who couldn’t afford to eat.

He said he'd volunteered because of the money on offer. His family doesn’t want him to go, but he was told that they would be paid £37,000 if he was killed.
He said he knew of at least 200 people who had volunteered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/wor...43f21e4f71af55b4616208&pinned_post_type=share

Meanwhile, people are effectively paying money to fight for Ukraine.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I do find the reaction to this particular act of aggression very strange. My entire life I've been watching people far away get bombed into pink paste by powerful, aggressive countries. Often that country was the US. There was always protest of some sort or another, but none of it compares to the pearl clutching we're supposed to engage in for Ukraine.

I'm just as sympathetic to Ukrainians as I am to Palestinians or Afghans or Yemenis or Kurds or Ethiopians or Iraqis or any of the other poorer, browner people that I guess didn't have the right stuff for people to care about all these years. I wonder where all these people who are screaming from the rooftops about sovereignty or civilian casualties of war have been all these last decades.

I'm glad that Russian invasion and atrocities in Ukraine is getting the attention that such wantonly inhumane acts always deserve. I am deeply cynical as to the motivations behind this sudden interest in humanitarian concerns in a country that has been perfectly content to make global suffering a back burner issue, but I suppose you gotta take the few wins when you find them.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Heh.

Anyway, in case anyone cares:

LAW: Light Antitank Weapon - a post-bazooka evolution of the anti-tank unguided rocket.

VLAW: Very Light Antitank Weapon - a further evolution of the unguided rocket

SMAW: Shoulder-Launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon - modern tank armor makes anti-tank rockets less effective, but the same system can be used on thinner-skinned targets. Specialized warheads for clearing enclosed spaces are developed. Another unguided rocket.

NLAW: Next generation Light Anti-tank Weapon - A guided missile. Much larger and heavier than previous light anti-tank weapons, to accommodate the guidance system and the larger warhead necessary for penetrating modern tank armor. A UK product.

Javelin - Another variation on the guided anti-tank missile theme, similar to the NLAW. A US product.

Ukraine is also getting shipments of Swedish AT-4s, a modern take on the classic bazooka, and American Switchblades, a remote-controlled flying grenade.

Thanks.

I needed some googling to figure out what was meant by the euphemism of "loitering munition".

 

[Ryokan]

Swedish media reports, the Russian jets that entered Swedish airspace earlier this month were carrying nuclear warheads.

 

[slyjoe]

Swedish media reports, the Russian jets that entered Swedish airspace earlier this month were carrying nuclear warheads.

How do they know?

 

[Ryokan]

How do they know?

I don't know, and they don't say.

Here's the news report, Google translated from Swedish.

It's a serious Swedish broadcaster, so I don't see any reason to doubt them.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I do find the reaction to this particular act of aggression very strange. My entire life I've been watching people far away get bombed into pink paste by powerful, aggressive countries. Often that country was the US. There was always protest of some sort or another, but none of it compares to the pearl clutching we're supposed to engage in for Ukraine.

I'm just as sympathetic to Ukrainians as I am to Palestinians or Afghans or Yemenis or Kurds or Ethiopians or Iraqis or any of the other poorer, browner people that I guess didn't have the right stuff for people to care about all these years. I wonder where all these people who are screaming from the rooftops about sovereignty or civilian casualties of war have been all these last decades.

I'm glad that Russian invasion and atrocities in Ukraine is getting the attention that such wantonly inhumane acts always deserve. I am deeply cynical as to the motivations behind this sudden interest in humanitarian concerns in a country that has been perfectly content to make global suffering a back burner issue, but I suppose you gotta take the few wins when you find them.

Because this war is in our own yard.

WHat would you do?