Cont: Texas bans abortion. Part 2

[johnny karate]

I was referring to his general opinions on abortion, not one specific instance.

Well, on that you might have a point. Warp12 thinks forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth is “acceptable”, so there’s at least consistency in the repulsiveness.

 

[Stacyhs]

Question:

How does the government know when a woman is pregnant, how do they know when she has had an abortion, and how do they know when a particular doctor has performed one?

This is extremely personal information and I just want to know how it gets to these people. Do the feds have a record of all my prescriptions, the results of my last physical?

They don't due to HEPA laws.

 

[Warp12]

Well, on that you might have a point. Warp12 thinks forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth is “acceptable”, so there’s at least consistency in the repulsiveness.

Good Lord. I know you love post-mining, but the constant misrepresentation is ridiculous. Every topic, the same thing. I don't think forcing anyone who has been raped to give birth is acceptable. There is no reason for it, because as I mentioned, avoiding it is a simple legislative change...even for laws such as the one in Texas.

In fact, the last time you and I discussed this topic it went like this:

Lord have mercy. You are skipping over the entire context of what I was responding to. You are completely ignoring that I am against this legislation. You are misrepresenting my overall position, by a country mile. And you keep doing so.

I guess we are done here

Deja vu.

 

[johnny karate]

Question:

How does the government know when a woman is pregnant, how do they know when she has had an abortion, and how do they know when a particular doctor has performed one?

This is extremely personal information and I just want to know how it gets to these people. Do the feds have a record of all my prescriptions, the results of my last physical?

Under the Texas law, the government doesn’t have much of a role. However, if you think your neighbor had an abortion, you can sue them. I suppose the facts would then have to come out in discovery.

 

[johnny karate]

Good Lord. I know you love post-mining, but the constant misrepresentation is ridiculous. Every topic, the same thing. I don't think forcing anyone who has been raped to give birth is acceptable. There is no reason for it, because as I mentioned, avoiding it is a simple legislative change...even for laws such as the one in Texas.

In fact, the last time you and I discussed this topic it went like this:

Deja vu.

Here’s the entire exchange:

The law is clearly working as indented. Like when it makes some slutty 11 year old who seduced her step father give birth. This is by design.

That is something that could be avoided by a relatively minor change in the legislation.

That being said, I think that unfortunate situation would still be an acceptable, though tragic, tradeoff...if the law were reducing unwanted pregnancies in general by forcing people to behave more responsibly, while at the same time encouraging healthy pregnancies to be carried to term.

Unfortunately, I doubt either is the case. Such notions are frowned upon by those who are focused on the singular aspect of choice. Hence the message will always be clouded, and there will always be encouragement for the most irresponsible of behaviors.

I’ve highlighted the part where you say that forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth would be acceptable.

 

[Warp12]

Here’s the entire exchange:



I’ve highlighted the part where you say that forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth would be acceptable.

We've went through this before. As I say, you are misrepresenting the entire discussion. Clearly I don't endorse such a thing. I stated that it would be tragic, legislation could easily avoid it, and that the proposed laws would not likely have any overwhelming positive impact that would balance out such a thing.

You conveniently ignore these things.

 

[johnny karate]

We've went through this before. As I say, you are misrepresenting the entire discussion. Clearly I don't endorse such a thing. I stated that it would be tragic, legislation could easily avoid it, and that the proposed laws would not likely have any overwhelming positive impact that would balance out such a thing.

You conveniently ignore these things.

I didn’t ignore anything. I literally quoted the entire exchange.

You clearly said forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth was acceptable.

 

[Stacyhs]

When my sister was in nursing school in Montana many moons ago, she assisted a 12 year old giving birth. She said it was horrifying as the scared little girl kept crying for her mama and screaming in pain. But this is what some of these self-righteous turds think is acceptable if they can 'save' a bundle of non-sentient cells that make up a fetus at 7 weeks gestation. They can go.........themselves.

 

[Warp12]

I didn’t ignore anything. I literally quoted the entire exchange.

You clearly said forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth was acceptable.

This has all been explained to you before, last time you got the point twisted. The discussion went on much longer than a couple of posts, as well. I'm not sure if you intentionally distort these things, or if you just can't understand what is explained to you repeatedly.

Either way, I am done debating you for today, Johnny Karate.

 

[johnny karate]

This has all been explained to you before, last time you got the point twisted. The discussion went on much longer than a couple of posts, as well. I'm not sure if you intentionally distort these things, or if you just can't understand what is explained to you repeatedly.

Either way, I am done debating you for today, Johnny Karate.

Nothing has been twisted. I quoted you directly. You clearly said forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth was acceptable.

 

[Aridas]

This is incorrect. There is no unique way to define opposite for a question like this.That is one of my objections to Warp12's position. Without agreement on what the opposite positions are, we can't define a non-extreme centre position.

I'm going to simply disagree here. The extremist polar opposites on this are forced birth and forced abortion. Period. There's quite a range in between and a few issues that stretch within it, but that's generally dealing with subsets. Also, as I've touched on separately, that something is some extreme on an arbitrary scale or subset is not, in and of itself, all that meaningful. To poke at an obvious example, "distance from center." One extreme is far, far from center, the other extreme is at center. The center position of that, though, isn't even close to center. Another is healthiness. One extreme is very healthy, the other is at effectively dead. I would much rather be at the very healthy extreme than some mid point, which makes the point that an arbitrary extreme is not necessarily undesirable, regardless of how useful the concept of the Golden Mean is in a general manner.

 

[bruto]

Good Lord. I know you love post-mining, but the constant misrepresentation is ridiculous. Every topic, the same thing. I don't think forcing anyone who has been raped to give birth is acceptable. There is no reason for it, because as I mentioned, avoiding it is a simple legislative change...even for laws such as the one in Texas.

In fact, the last time you and I discussed this topic it went like this:




Deja vu.

I get your stated position, but you keep arguing in favor of legislation that has not undergone that simple change, and has no known prospect of ever doing so.

 

[Warp12]

I get your stated position, but you keep arguing in favor of legislation that has not undergone that simple change, and has no known prospect of ever doing so.

Huh? I have never supported the Texas legislation, if that is what you are referring to. It is too restrictive. I have stated this repeatedly. I do not support legislation that prevents rape victims from having an abortion.

 

[bruto]

Huh? I have never supported the Texas legislation, if that is what you are referring to. It is too restrictive. I have stated this repeatedly. I do not support legislation that prevents rape victims from having an abortion.

OK, perhaps I misunderstand your lack of support, as it seems to be more like a hold-nose-and-support anyway kind of thing, setting it up as preferable to what you consider its opposite, or against no law at all. Apologies if that is misunderstood. Clarification noted.

 

[Blue Mountain]

They don't due to HEPA laws.

I'm uncertain what the laws regarding high efficiency particulate absorbing filters have to do with medical information.

Although it's rather obvious to me you mean HIPPA.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm uncertain what the laws regarding high efficiency particulate absorbing filters have to do with medical information.

Although it's rather obvious to me you mean HIPPA.

LOL! I did! Brain fart!!

 

[Dr. Keith]

Huh? I have never supported the Texas legislation, if that is what you are referring to. It is too restrictive. I have stated this repeatedly. I do not support legislation that prevents rape victims from having an abortion.

What if it’s a he said she said sort of thing and the cops don’t feel they have a great case but are looking into it?

Abortion or wait until the DA decides to charge?

 

[shuttlt]

I'm going to simply disagree here. The extremist polar opposites on this are forced birth and forced abortion. Period.

That is simply not the case. One can obviously construct the argument in such a way that forced birth and forced abortion are at opposite ends, but that is a choice. If one instead constructs it around freedom to choose with minimum freedom at one end and maximum freedom at the other, we find different opposites and a different middle.

There's quite a range in between and a few issues that stretch within it, but that's generally dealing with subsets. Also, as I've touched on separately, that something is some extreme on an arbitrary scale or subset is not, in and of itself, all that meaningful.

I agree, and also "extreme" positions aren't necessarily wrong.

Another is healthiness. One extreme is very healthy, the other is at effectively dead.

Yes, but this is a function of how you have constructed the example. One can obviously do "healthy" things to excess, so if you were inclined, you could reframe it with another undesirable point off to the other side and claim healthy was at the center.

 

[Aridas]

That is simply not the case. One can obviously construct the argument in such a way that forced birth and forced abortion are at opposite ends, but that is a choice. If one instead constructs it around freedom to choose with minimum freedom at one end and maximum freedom at the other, we find different opposites and a different middle.

Which immediately leads to the problem of which freedoms are actually minimized, which is a pretty common problem in how meaningful the implications are for arbitrary scales. Forced birth and forced abortion are both sides that restrict, after all. Forced birth to forced abortion is an objective scale when it comes to the subject, on the other hand. The fundamental difference here is a lot like the difference from an objective extreme right to an objective extreme left versus an Overton window "extreme right" to "extreme left" that starts from an objective extreme right and stretches all the way to an objective slight right. You can obviously construct an argument in various ways, but not all ways are actually equal in value and implication. To wrap this back around, though, for Warp12's attempted "extremist" argument to actually work the way he was trying to use it here, it would need to be on the forced birth to forced abortion scale. A no freedom to no restriction scale does not and cannot work for the usage he attempted, even if it could be used for other ends.

Yes, but this is a function of how you have constructed the example. One can obviously do "healthy" things to excess, so if you were inclined, you could reframe it with another undesirable point off to the other side and claim healthy was at the center.

As noted, it's an arbitrary scale from the start, on purpose. "Doing too many healthy things" is, of course, not the same as actually "being very healthy," which is why I chose the latter as an example for the point being made and not the former.

 

[johnny karate]

Huh? I have never supported the Texas legislation, if that is what you are referring to. It is too restrictive. I have stated this repeatedly. I do not support legislation that prevents rape victims from having an abortion.

Except that you straight up said that forcing raped 11 year-olds to give birth would be acceptable.