Being a racist while having a soft skull

[TofuFighter]

The average what?

Pujols has no previous criminal record. The totality of his record for violent behavior is exactly one punch.

Meanwhile, the only other person involved was a repeated violent felon, but somehow it's the guy who punched him that you feel compelled to observe is "likely more prone to violence than average", despite having nothing to base that on.

Well... not nothing. It's almost certainly based on something. If only there was some sort of common element that would explain such reasoning...

 

[RolandRat]

There is no name you might call someone that gives them justification for physical assault

I agree. I haven't looked into this incident but assuming the guy who died didn't act violently himself, the guy who threw the punch should be behind bars IMO.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Okay cool, I thought we’d have to suffer through more of your moral posturing about how terrible it is to punch people before we all realized that that issue was already successfully adjudicated.



Oh no, Thermal has decided that the racist pedophile’s status as a pedophile isn’t relevant. I guess that means we’re not allowed to talk about it anymore.

Hopefully we can stay focused on more important facets of the discussion like Thermal’s fascinating dissertation on why he would never, ever punch anyone ever at all, because that’s totally relevant.

I tend to agree that this guy being a pedophile is largely irrelevant.

 

[Warp12]

Well... not nothing. It's almost certainly based on something. If only there was some sort of common element that would explain such reasoning...

Do.we really believe that the average emotionally-stable person will violently assault someone 50 years their senior, if called a name? Even the law doesn't seem to think this is normal, acceptable behavior.

 

[EaglePuncher]

Do.we really believe that the average emotionally-stable person will violently assault someone 50 years their senior, if called a name? Even the law doesn't seem to think this is normal, acceptable behavior.

Slowly but surely attacking the character of the black guy...

 

[Thermal]

I agree. I haven't looked into this incident but assuming the guy who died didn't act violently himself, the guy who threw the punch should be behind bars IMO.

Short version: -Pujols (the puncher) was doing his job, managing a coffee joint.
77 yr old white guy complains about food or service or something, and calls Pujols (27 yr old black man) a particularly nasty racial slur.

-Pujols asks him to repeat that. Geezer does.

-Pujols cold-cocks the geezer and drops him to the concrete floor, and old guy dies of head injuries later.

-Pujols pleads guilty to felony battery and gets two years house arrest, 200 hours of community service, and has to take an anger management course.

Here in the States, provocation is a gray area in law. Usually, it doesn't get you off the charge, but it might soften your sentence as a mitigating factor.

I personally think that provocation (provisionally meaning to act in such a way that would incite a violent reaction) should be treated more like an assault (provisionally meaning to put someone in fear of an imminent fight), and the first physical shot would be preemptive self-defense. In that view, Pujols was judged too harshly. But the racist senior citizen was 50 years senior to the young Pujols, and generally a young, strong guy should have the wherewithal to hold back from beating on an old man, perhaps just treating him like a senile coot whose outrageous behavior is somewhat tolerated. But then this guy has a lifelong history of horrifyingly sick criminal behavior, not just some "relic of his time". So where does this fall on the spectrum? It's an interesting question of what has the most moral weight.

 

[plague311]

Do.we really believe that the average emotionally-stable person will violently assault someone 50 years their senior, if called a name? Even the law doesn't seem to think this is normal, acceptable behavior.

I love that you've moved on to focusing on his age since nothing else has worked. "How could you harm this poor old senior citizen?!?!" In fact, both you and Thermal seemed to shift into that gear at the same time.

Here's the thing, I doubt Pujol's was checking ID's. What we do know is that the old man came into the store to complain about some ******* coffee and made some racial slurs. Since we know he's been in prison, he probably had a few colorful words that he knew would provoke the manager. He used them, it provoked him, and he caught one to the jaw. I doubt the manager intended on killing him and if I don't want to get popped in the mouth by someone I don't say things that I know will illicit that response. That's just me, I have common sense like that.

 

[Thermal]

I love that you've moved on to focusing on his age since nothing else has worked. "How could you harm this poor old senior citizen?!?!" In fact, both you and Thermal seemed to shift into that gear at the same time.

Bull ******* ****. I have been harping on the age disparity since the story first came out. Stop lying.

 

[Warp12]

Here's the thing, I doubt Pujol's was checking ID's.

Look, the guy was a pedo...not Benjamin Button. I don't think Pujols needed to see his ID to know he was quite geriatric. He was 77 years old, after all.

You guys are really stretching for ways to normalize this. Comical.

 

[plague311]

Bull ******* ****. I have been harping on the age disparity since the story first came out. Stop lying.

Sure.

Look, the guy was a pedo...not Benjamin Button. I don't think Pujols needed to see his ID to know he was quite geriatric. He was 77 years old, after all.

You guys are really stretching for ways to normalize this. Comical.

LoL what are you talking about "normalize"? This happened in Florida, the only thing abnormal about it is no one had a ******* gun.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Pujols should have just said the dude was reaching into his jacket. Therefore, he feared for his life and was standing his ground.

If they were real Floridians and carrying, it would have been a scene out of John Wick much sooner.

Are you two seriously advocating that a person should lie in order to get away with murder?

Edit: I failed to infer sarcasm...

 

[Thermal]

Are you two seriously advocating that a person should lie in order to get away with murder?

I've really got to start adding that "/s" after posts like that.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I personally think that provocation (provisionally meaning to act in such a way that would incite a violent reaction) should be treated more like an assault (provisionally meaning to put someone in fear of an imminent fight), and the first physical shot would be preemptive self-defense.

This would be an interesting experiment. Were it applied universally, I suspect there would be a whole lot of dead males, killed by preemptive self-defense, by the females they verbally accosted.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I've really got to start adding that "/s" after posts like that.

Yeah, I caught on but hadn't made it to edit yet.

 

[EaglePuncher]

This would be an interesting experiment. Were it applied universally, I suspect there would be a whole lot of dead males, killed by preemptive self-defense, by the females they verbally accosted.

Yeah, I agree, women are just hysterical animals,amirite guys?

 

[mgidm86]

Yeah, I agree, women are just hysterical animals,amirite guys?

No, you'd have a bunch of dead guys who deserved it. I can think of two in my life.

 

[Disbelief]

Are you two seriously advocating that a person should lie in order to get away with murder?

Edit: I failed to infer sarcasm...

No, it's a reference to the state of Florida and people like Zimmerman who did get away with murder. It also points to the ridiculousness of stand your ground laws, IMO.

 

[Warp12]

Are you two seriously advocating that a person should lie in order to get away with murder?

On a serious note, why wouldn't you lie if you thought it might get you off the hook? I mean, if someone were facing a murder charge, and potentially long-term incarceration or even death, self-preservation would seem to be the order of the day.

No matter what your testimony, it isn't bringing someone back from the grave. And if I can forgive myself for murder, what is a lie on top of that?

I remember a police officer once told me, "honesty is the best policy". 10 minutes later I was under arrest. So much for that idea.

 

[johnny karate]

Do.we really believe that the average emotionally-stable person will violently assault someone 50 years their senior, if called a name? Even the law doesn't seem to think this is normal, acceptable behavior.

The law also gave Pujols a relatively light sentence, obviously not considering him to be the dangerously unstable and violent person you obsessively characterize him as.

And this was in Florida, no less. Imagine being more racist than the state of Florida.

 

[Thermal]

The law also gave Pujols a relatively light sentence, obviously not considering him to be the dangerously unstable and violent person you obsessively characterize him as.

And this was in Florida, no less. Imagine being more racist than the state of Florida.

Considering the plea (battery), it wasn't that light. Two years house arrest and 200 hours of community Service is nothing to pooh-pooh as trivial for a single punch with provocation.