• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The supernatural

For the article Supernatural

  • thank you

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I hope my article is reviewed

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I am waiting for your opinion, dear ones

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Hoping for your success and health

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Total voters
    1
Status
Not open for further replies.
heydarian saeed said:
Hello
Please explain my distortion of the Quran. What distortion have I brought in the Quran? "Modern science is stated in the Qur'an. Exactly and there is no doubt about it."
Click to expand...

You have said the Quran is Gods words. Then you have denied the many verses about hellfire, claiming they are only metaphors. In other words you have said God does not know what he is talking about, and he does not mean what he says. He only said unbelievers will burn in eternal hellfire to scare them.
 
heydarian saeed said:
- Exactly we have read the previous and next verses in the Gospel of John and Matthew. None of them interpret the translation to mean the Holy Spirit. Rather, the next prophet is Muhammad.
- Your knowledge of the meaning and interpretation of the Bible is limited. As you do not basically understand the meaning and interpretation of the Qur'an. And all your talk in this regard is either vague. Or because of instinct hostility. no problem. We're. And we answer.
Thank you
Click to expand...

Most of the verses you quoted are about Jesus, not about prophets that will come after him. But John 14.16 says God will send another comforter, and this is not Muhammad it is the holy ghost.

John 14.28 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 
Scorpion said:
Most of the verses you quoted are about Jesus, not about prophets that will come after him. But John 14.16 says God will send another comforter, and this is not Muhammad it is the holy ghost.

John 14.28 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Click to expand...

Hello
Just one question: Was not the Holy Spirit sent to the prophets? To Moses - to Noah - to Abraham - to Jesus and to John. So why does God need to say that he sent the Holy Spirit to you? It is enough to think about this one question. To understand that God does not mean the Holy Spirit to John in this verse. Rather, he is the next prophet. And the Prophet after Jesus is none other than Muhammad.
The Holy Spirit, who is Gabriel, was sent to all the prophets before Jesus and himself. God does not have to say I will send him again. Rather, he means the prophet after Jesus.
Examining only one question in the meaning and interpretation of this verse will give you the answer. Be more careful.
Thanks
 
heydarian saeed said:
Hello
Just one question: Was not the Holy Spirit sent to the prophets? To Moses - to Noah - to Abraham - to Jesus and to John. So why does God need to say that he sent the Holy Spirit to you? It is enough to think about this one question. To understand that God does not mean the Holy Spirit to John in this verse. Rather, he is the next prophet. And the Prophet after Jesus is none other than Muhammad.
The Holy Spirit, who is Gabriel, was sent to all the prophets before Jesus and himself. God does not have to say I will send him again. Rather, he means the prophet after Jesus.
Examining only one question in the meaning and interpretation of this verse will give you the answer. Be more careful.
Thanks
Click to expand...
The holy spirit, moses, noah, abraham, jesus, god and gabriel are all imaginary. Prophecy is a con job.

I have no idea why you think this kind of superstitious nonsense claim impresses anyone.
 
heydarian saeed said:
Hello
Just one question: Was not the Holy Spirit sent to the prophets? To Moses - to Noah - to Abraham - to Jesus and to John. So why does God need to say that he sent the Holy Spirit to you? It is enough to think about this one question. To understand that God does not mean the Holy Spirit to John in this verse. Rather, he is the next prophet. And the Prophet after Jesus is none other than Muhammad. The Holy Spirit, who is Gabriel, was sent to all the prophets before Jesus and himself. God does not have to say I will send him again. Rather, he means the prophet after Jesus.
Examining only one question in the meaning and interpretation of this verse will give you the answer. Be more careful.
Thanks
Click to expand...

No, the holy Ghost is not the angel Gabriel, that was a mistake by Muhammad. The following bible verses should make clear that the holy Ghost enters into true prophets and speaks through their mouths,

Ac:1:2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Ac:1:5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Ac:1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Ac:1:16: Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Ac:2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Ac:2:33: Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac:4:8: Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Ac:4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Ac:5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Ac:5:32: And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Ac:6:3: Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Ac:6:5: And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
Ac:7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Ac:7:55: But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Ac:8:15: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Ac:8:17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Ac:8:18: And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Ac:8:19: Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Ac:9:17: And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Ac:9:31: Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Ac:10:38: How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Ac:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Ac:10:45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac:10:47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Ac:11:15: And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Ac:11:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Ac:11:24: For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
Ac:13:2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Ac:13:4: So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
Ac:13:9: Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Ac:13:52: And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
Ac:15:8: And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Ac:15:28: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Ac:16:6: Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
Ac:19:2: He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Ac:19:6: And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Ac:20:23: Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
Ac:20:28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ac:21:11: And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
Ac:28:25: And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
 
Scorpion said:
No, the holy Ghost is not the angel Gabriel, that was a mistake by Muhammad. The following bible verses should make clear that the holy Ghost enters into true prophets and speaks through their mouths,

Ac:1:2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Ac:1:5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Ac:1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Ac:1:16: Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Ac:2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Ac:2:33: Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac:4:8: Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Ac:4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Ac:5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Ac:5:32: And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Ac:6:3: Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Ac:6:5: And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
Ac:7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Ac:7:55: But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Ac:8:15: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Ac:8:17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Ac:8:18: And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Ac:8:19: Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Ac:9:17: And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Ac:9:31: Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Ac:10:38: How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Ac:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Ac:10:45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac:10:47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Ac:11:15: And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Ac:11:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Ac:11:24: For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
Ac:13:2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Ac:13:4: So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
Ac:13:9: Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Ac:13:52: And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
Ac:15:8: And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Ac:15:28: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Ac:16:6: Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
Ac:19:2: He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Ac:19:6: And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Ac:20:23: Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
Ac:20:28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ac:21:11: And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
Ac:28:25: And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Click to expand...

I find it ironic that you quote a fantasy story to debunk a fantasy story. The Quran and Islam have the same basis in reality as the Bible and Christianity.
 
Scorpion said:
You have said the Quran is Gods words. Then you have denied the many verses about hellfire, claiming they are only metaphors. In other words you have said God does not know what he is talking about, and he does not mean what he says. He only said unbelievers will burn in eternal hellfire to scare them.
Click to expand...

None of the verses of the Qur'an are denied. And can not be distorted. God knows better and more than all of us humans. Some of the verses of torment are to frighten that no one should sin. The same is true for the disbelievers. God has said that the disbelievers should stop denying and not sin. These verses are either explicit and clear. Or said with metaphor and allusion. My discussion of Quranic verses in this group is only a scientific discussion. Modern science. Even in the verses of torment, the points of modern science are abundantly seen.
 
abaddon said:
The holy spirit, moses, noah, abraham, jesus, god and gabriel are all imaginary. Prophecy is a con job.

I have no idea why you think this kind of superstitious nonsense claim impresses anyone.
Click to expand...

Hello
Of course, it is clear that you will not be affected in any way. Do not bore yourself. The Qur'an did not come to impress like you. So be comfortable. And rest.
Thanks
 
heydarian saeed said:
Hello
I have told you in many of my messages in this group. Please check and see. Good luck.
Click to expand...


Which posts? You haven’t in any of the ones I’ve read, and that’s quite a lot of them. If your claim is true, you will be able to link to some of them.
 
Last edited:
Mojo said:
How do you tell which are which?
Click to expand...

Simple. They are what they need to be in order to prove the Qur'an is true and miraculous and great and everything.
So, if the literal words are silly, like the stars being lamps to throw at eavesdropping demons, then it's metaphorical.
If the literal words are cruel, like cutting off the hands and feet of unbelievers, then they don't apply because hrumph humph mutter mumble.
If the actual words make some kind of sense, then they are literal, but only if you use certain translations, which again have to be chosen by the person making the claim. That this is dishonest and entirely subjective manipulation of the original text is immaterial to the likes of heydarian: any depth of dishonesty is permissible if it makes Islam look good. (No, I don't think he does see the contradiction there.)
 
heydarian saeed said:
Hello
Exactly... Of course, the Qur'an is more complete. And without any distortion. Thank you
Click to expand...

Rubbish, the Quran is a half remembered copy of the bible stories. See the story of Joseph in surah 12 as an example.



Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in surah 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran surah 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire surah is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does surah 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at surah 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and surah 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.
 
heydarian saeed said:
None of the verses of the Qur'an are denied. And can not be distorted. God knows better and more than all of us humans. Some of the verses of torment are to frighten that no one should sin. The same is true for the disbelievers. God has said that the disbelievers should stop denying and not sin. These verses are either explicit and clear. Or said with metaphor and allusion.
Click to expand...

So God lies about throwing unbelievers into eternal hellfire, and he only says these things to scare them?

WHAT A BASTARD.

You might even be able to see why I think it is Muhamad not God who says these lies, to scare people into following him.
 
Scorpion said:
So God lies about throwing unbelievers into eternal hellfire, and he only says these things to scare them?

WHAT A BASTARD.

You might even be able to see why I think it is Muhamad not God who says these lies, to scare people into following him.
Click to expand...

God lies too, multiple times, in the Bible. I'm afraid your deity does not get a free pass on this.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
God lies too, multiple times, in the Bible. I'm afraid your deity does not get a free pass on this.
Click to expand...


Agreed, absolutely. Scorpion's worldview is in many ways entirely as indefensible as heydarian's.

-----

However, what Scorpion's doing, in these recent posts, isn't --- as far as I can make out --- claiming his own superstitions are right and therefore, and in as much heydarian's superstitions differ from his own, therefore those are wrong. (That is, while he may indeed think and believe that; but that isn't what he's arguing.)

What he's trying to show --- and doing that successfully, by and large --- is how, historically speaking, logically speaking, the crap that is in the Quran is basically derived from the crap that is in the Bible, and how the former is a garbled version of the latter, but without a doubt derived from the latter. What I think he's trying to show is that the Quran isn't an original fairy tale, but in fact directly derived from the Bible. (Much as many things in the Bible are derived from other, older fairy tales --- but of course, that's a separate discussion, and Scorpion doesn't touch on that.)

I think he's actually doing a good job, with that patiently and painstakingly curated stream of scriptural quotes, in showing exactly that: that the Quran is not an orignal document; that it is derived directly from the Bible; and that it is a garbled version of the Bible; and that therefore it is clearly the work of less than fully knowledgeable and literate folks who were basically plagiarizing and building on and contorting to suit their own ends, what they'd heard and read in the Bible and other Christian sources.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom