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Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

Chris_Halkides said:
“[Cancel culture is] a method of withdrawing support for public figures or companies. It can also be considered to be used as a form of online shaming on social media platforms.” This definition comes from a Woman in her 50s who is a moderate Democrat. From a link previously provided.
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Which as I mentioned before this means the "cancel culture" louts were the ones involved in the "public backlash", you have got this arse over tit.
 
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Chris_Halkides said:
If one cancels a performance by a musician, one is withdrawing financial support.

One, there is no reason to connect any given musician with political decisions made by leaders of a government. To cancel a concert is to punish one person for the actions of another.

Two, specifically with respect to a Russian musician, they may have friends or family in Russia. Asking them to denounce Putin as a condition of giving a concert is asking them to walk on a knife's edge. If they say too much, there could be repercussions for their loved ones.
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Got it. Withdrawing financial support is bad, and therefore sanctions and boycotts of any kind are bad. Kind of an extreme position, though. I tend to fall on the side that says people are free to choose to whom they want to offer "financial support" and owe no one else an explanation for their decisions. But then again, I believe in things like freedom of choice and association.
 
Alexander Malofeev

Darat said:
It’s your claim that this is somehow cancel culture - so the onus is on you to support your claim.
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I defined cancel culture in one comment, then I explained why what happened to Alexander Malofeev fit the definition in a subsequent comment.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
I defined cancel culture in one comment, then I explained why what happened to Alexander Malofeev fit the definition in a subsequent comment.
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But nowhere in there was it explained why it's a problem.

If I say "Shoes are wrong" and you ask why, and I respond with the definition of shoes, I didn't really answer your question, did I?
 
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1812 Overture

Darat said:
As I keep mentioning your ire should be aimed at those behind the "public backlash".
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The 1812 Overture was written to commemorate a successful defense against an invading army. Instead of seeing it in this light, the orchestra only saw it as being Russian. This was shallow thinking on their part. The second symphony should be seen as a celebration of Ukrainian music (more shallow thinking from the orchestra).
 
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I could almost admire the view

johnny karate said:
Got it. Withdrawing financial support is bad, and therefore sanctions and boycotts of any kind are bad. Kind of an extreme position, though. I tend to fall on the side that says people are free to choose to whom they want to offer "financial support" and owe no one else an explanation for their decisions. But then again, I believe in things like freedom of choice and association.
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That is a Grand Canyon-sized leap.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
If one cancels a performance by a musician, one is withdrawing financial support.

One, there is no reason to connect any given musician with political decisions made by leaders of a government. To cancel a concert is to punish one person for the actions of another.

Two, specifically with respect to a Russian musician, they may have friends or family in Russia. Asking them to denounce Putin as a condition of giving a concert is asking them to walk on a knife's edge. If they say too much, there could be repercussions for their loved ones.
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Who was asked to denounce Putin?
 
Hitting Tchaikovsky in the wallet

ponderingturtle said:
Wow are you going to be upset when you hear about the sanctions being leveled against Russia that hit all russians in the wallet not just Putin. There is clearly no room for that kind of collective punishment.
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Th Cardiff Philharmonic did not withdraw financial support from Russia. Regarding Alexander Malofeev, David Walsh wrote (link previously given), "The Vancouver Recital Society claimed it was canceling Malofeev’s concert because he had not yet spoken up about the war." Therefore, this was not an instance of an economic sanction that was hurting Russia being levied. If it had been, nothing Mr. Malofeev would have said would have made any difference.
 
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Music and war

Carlotta said:
Who was asked to denounce Putin?
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Anna Netrebko was. From a previous link: "Famed Russian soprano Anna Netrebko will no longer perform at the Metropolitan Opera in New York City this season or next after she refused to publicly distance herself from Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to a statement from the Met." Also from a previous link: "The Met made several attempts to convince Netrebko, who has made statements critical of the war, to rebuke Putin but failed to persuade the singer."

Mr. Malofeev was asked to speak up about the war, as I discussed upthread. Whether or not this is a meaningful difference is up to each of us to decide.

Say I have an idea. Mr. Malofeev could accompany Ms. Netrebko singing arias from Otello. Bright Sheng could give a pre-concert lecture...wait, never mind.
 
The waiting is the hardest part

johnny karate said:
Then I guess we're back to you needing to explain what the problem is.
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I am waiting for someone to answer the question I posed in comment #1472, or the one in #1486. While we are at it, I am still waiting for someone to explain why it wasn't a waste of $42,000 to move the UW-Madison rock to an undisclosed location, etc.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
I am waiting for someone to answer the question I posed in comment #1472, or the one in #1486. While we are at it, I am still waiting for someone to explain why it wasn't a waste of $42,000 to move the UW-Madison rock to an undisclosed location, etc.
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I was going to, but my twitter timeline is blowing up with people saying I shouldn’t. Sorry.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
I defined cancel culture in one comment, then I explained why what happened to Alexander Malofeev fit the definition in a subsequent comment.
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And I'm still asking you about the first claim i.e. about the Cardiff orchestra which you seem to be trying to cancel from this thread!
 
Chris_Halkides said:
The 1812 Overture was written to commemorate a successful defense against an invading army. Instead of seeing it in this light, the orchestra only saw it as being Russian. This was shallow thinking on their part. The second symphony should be seen as a celebration of Ukrainian music (more shallow thinking from the orchestra).
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And?
 
facing the music

Darat said:
It's your example, your claim, pardon me for not trying to support your claim.
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Nonsense. It was your claim in more than one comment (#1481-1482, among others) that there was a backlash against the Cardiff Philharmonic (in other words, you implied that there was an attempt to cancel them), and I asked you to state what the backlash was and what consequences did the orchestra face.
 
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