• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Electric Vehicles

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not denying there may sometimes be wait times for chargers.

But anecdotally, on our one road trip below, we never had to wait at any Supercharger station. In fact, I don’t think we ever saw more than half the charging stations in use at any of them.

51899760849_43e04dc455.jpg


Plus, Tesla is rapidly adding stations and capacity to stay ahead of increasing demand.

Just curious, has any Tesla owner had issues with full Supercharger stations and having to wait? Or other EV owners for that matter? It obviously can happen, but just not sure how common it is.
 
Karen is planning a trip to northern Indiana from our home near Knoxville, TN.

This is what Tesla’s trip planner comes up with:

51916713201_d1f110bff6.jpg


Half hour stops every few hours of driving is not that big a deal. To us. It may be to others. But at our age and pace, it takes a while to grab coffee and a snack, go to the bathroom, stretch, walk the dog, whatever. Which turns a lot of 5 minute gas stops into at least 15 minute stops when all is said and done.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything. Do what works for you.

And, again, we owned a PHEV Honda Clarity for over 3 years and over 60,000 miles, and the PHEV concept is a sound one. But I think it’s doomed to be a short-lived transitional step on the way to full EV’s. Having an engine along to charge your battery and/or drive the wheels is certainly convenient, but it undeniably adds a lot of complexity and maintenance compared to a pure EV.
 
Last edited:
RecoveringYuppy said:
That doesn't explain anything.
Click to expand...

Why Not? I think it's pretty self explanatory?

RecoveringYuppy said:
How do you think they are powered??
Click to expand...

Why is that relevant to the exchange in question? The statement is still wrong whether I explain how it's actually done or not.

Since you ask however, I'm more that willing to answer. They would be connected to a 3-phase transformer just like any commercial building would. Exactly how many transformers you'd need would depend on how big they are and how fast you want to charge.
 
lomiller said:
Since you ask however, I'm more that willing to answer. They would be connected to a 3-phase transformer just like any commercial building would. Exactly how many transformers you'd need would depend on how big they are and how fast you want to charge.
Click to expand...

You are missing the forest for the trees. The point is, the cost to run power to one residence isn’t going to be the same as the cost to run power to a set of 20 high speed chargers. The latter will be significantly more expensive, because it needs significantly more capacity.
 
Ziggurat said:
You are missing the forest for the trees. The point is, the cost to run power to one residence isn’t going to be the same as the cost to run power to a set of 20 high speed chargers. The latter will be significantly more expensive, because it needs significantly more capacity.
Click to expand...


If the electricity sales of 1 transformer pay for the cost of the transformer why wouldn't a second one or a third one pay for itself the power company can sell 2X or 3X as much electricity? If anything economies of scale kick in and on a per Watt basis it's cheaper to sell in higher volumes.

It's a lot simpler to supply a big customer in one location than it is try and distribute it to a lot of little customers because you can keep all 3 phases of the transformer in one place than it is to spread them around like they do in residential neighborhoods.
 
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but nothing you’ve said is very convincing. Over the next five years the car market will split into phev, ev, and ice. To me the ev looks like the best solution for most needs, to you the phev looks better.

If EVs become massively popular it won’t be hard to meet that charging demand. That is what free markets are really good at.
 
Last edited:
RecoveringYuppy said:
And for a lot of the cases we're talking about we're talking areas that won't have commercial users.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. No one is running low voltages for long distances. It's all high voltage 3-phase that gets stepped down relatively close to where you want to use it. This applies whether it's a residential neighborhood or a commercial building.
 
lomiller said:
If the electricity sales of 1 transformer pay for the cost of the transformer
Click to expand...

You need more than 1 transformer. That’s the whole point. The supply lines to the transformer cost substantial money as well, and they need to be a lot more substantial than the lines needed to supply a single charger or a normal gas station.
 
Dr. Keith said:
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but nothing you’ve said is very convincing. Over the next five years the car market will split into phev, ev, and ice. To me the ev looks like the best solution for most needs, to you the phev looks better.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about “most needs”. I am talking specifically about long distance driving. As I said early on, I think there’s a huge market for EVs in two car households, where they don’t need both cars to cover long distances.
 
Ziggurat said:
I am not talking about “most needs”. I am talking specifically about long distance driving. As I said early on, I think there’s a huge market for EVs in two car households, where they don’t need both cars to cover long distances.
Click to expand...

And I think an affordable EV with about 200-300 miles range and 10-20 minute 10-80% charging would cover long distance needs for anyone who does such trips less than weekly.

And the charging network to support that usage isn’t a massive burden. The pole on my property has a single transformer that could swerve several household. To add another transformer would be a nominal cost. Not every stop has to have 10-20 chargers if there are multiple places to stop. Just like not every gas station has to be a Buc-Cee’s.

If you are traveling more than 300 miles away from home on a more than weekly basis or if you often tow when taking long trips, the EVs are not going to work well at this point.
 
Dr. Keith said:
And the charging network to support that usage isn’t a massive burden.
Click to expand...
So far these claims have been basically handwaving.
Dr. Keith said:
The pole on my property has a single transformer that could swerve several household. To add another transformer would be a nominal cost.
Click to expand...
Not several supercharger stations though. And it's only a nominal cost if the grid behind that pole doesn't have to be upgraded. And remember, we are talking about chargers a bit faster than the fastest of chargers now. We're not in residential loads here, we're not in gas station power poles either, we're in medium commercial. The infrastructure for that isn't usually strewn along highways. It's in zoned higher density commercial areas.

Dr. Keith said:
Not every stop has to have 10-20 chargers if there are multiple places to stop. Just like not every gas station has to be a Buc-Cee’s.
Click to expand...
Since even the faster than present charges we're talking about are still slower than gas pumps won't there have to be more chargers than there are gas pumps? Although hopefully some land area can be recovered due to fewer gas pumps.

Dr. Keith said:
If you are traveling more than 300 miles away from home on a more than weekly basis or if you often tow when taking long trips, the EVs are not going to work well at this point.
Click to expand...
So what's going to address this need? Whatever your answer is, why not use whatever that is to address the "road trip" scenarios rather than a costly expansion of the charger network?
 
jimbob said:
Indeed, which is why I often cycle commute (25mi/40km 300m/1000ft total ascent round trip)

Or I did before I mostly started working from home.
Click to expand...

My commute is 64 miles, I don't fancy cycling that even on the sunniest of days.

Finger is hovering over a lease on an eNiro 4+, the diesel will go. There's no need for it as we consciously leave it on the drive when going on long trips even though the Leaf has a relatively short range (c. 160 miles) and a relatively low charge rate (max is 46 KW).

As for the conversation where I am not contributing...

The charging network here 10 years ago was insufficient for the number of EV's on the road. Now there's lots more EV's and the charging network isn't ideal, but it's much better. You will have to modify your driving if/when you buy an EV, but it's cheaper to run* and you get to feel superior (though I acknowledge that cyclists and pedestrians are that much more superior to me).

*unless the tax payer is subsidising the pollution you produce
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom