The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[MarkCorrigan]

Au contraire. Their credentials make them a headhunt for probably a dozen kookland operations around the USA. Whatcha bet Steve Bannon's getting his HR department to drop them a line.

If there's a job for Kellyanne Conway out there, there must be work for these stooges.

Point taken. Maybe OAAN or one of the other loony-bin media organisations.

 

[acbytesla]

It remains to be seen if outrage about Russian aggression is sufficient to overcome various local allegiances to specific oligarchs that park their money around the globe.

To my eye, targeted economic sanctions against the Russian elites is probably one of the best ways to pressure Putin. Pessimistically, I suspect many of these oligarchs are going to manage to carve out exemptions thanks to the local influence their huge mountains of money can buy, be it in the UK or Israel or wherever.

I imagine that targeted sanctions against the ruling class of Russia would be far more effective than general sanctions that are going to lead to huge numbers of powerless Russians becoming more impoverished, but the everyday Russian nobody doesn't have powerful friends willing to go to bat for them. I suspect that oligarchs will still manage to find safe harbors for their cash abroad even as sanctions make the Russian general public howl.

I'm really not sure. The Oligarch's wealth was and is dependent on Putin. And Putin is a Machiavellian leader. Putin can not afford to lose this hand. He's all in. He will be looking for the cracks in his armor. He will deal brutally with dissent just as he always have.

 

[jimbob]

She was just added to US blocking sanctions today, as they have extended the seizure lists to immediate family using allegedly proceeds of crime of the parent.

I think it's fair. Furthermore, interesting she didn't have an opinion yesterday when hundreds of Ukrainian civilians were getting blown up, but now it's her shoe collection on the line, SOMETHING MUST BE DONE ABOUT THIS!

OK, spoilt and stupid.

I forgot that.

 

[blutoski]

Oh yea, the self interest is obvious, but hey, at least it's actually motivating her. If we can strangle the finances of enough oligarchs the economy will collapse even faster. Quite honestly I'd keep crushing their economy into the ground even after they remove Putin and start asking if maybe they can have their money back now?

Well, remember what I was saying about the staged press conference opposition earlier.

A completely plausible alternative explanation is that she's reading from a script to give the west the impression that the oligarchs are citizens of a completely free speech loving nation under a benevolent genius leader whose compassion for his people is only exceeded by his willingness to listen to alternative viewpoints and do the right thing after careful consideration.

Like... how would Goebbels' daughter get a hold of the microphone if it wasn't part of the plan, y'know.

 

[Jimbo07]

I don't see this change in the near future - but I can easily see Russia invading Moldova and Georgia in the near future. They now have the excuse.

As I said, now might be the time for them to fight. Not out of heroism, or moral good, but because the battleground is still in Ukraine.

Even if they have next to nothing, the symbolism would be strong.

 

[Michel H]

It's not like EU will send an army to defend them against Russian invasion.

By the way, what would you (and other members) think about the idea of NATO sending a military force in Western Ukraine (for example), where there are currently no Russian troops, so this could be done peacefully and legally after a request by the legal authorities of Ukraine (i.e. president Zelensky and his government) ?

Such a force might include some warplanes, some Patriot surface-to-air missile systems for protection against potential enemy planes and so on.

Do you think this could send a strong signal to Putin, and help preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine (without triggering a big war) ?

NATO could perhaps justify this formally by invoking article 4 of its Charter:

The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened.

(https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm)
and claim that the Baltic states (for example) are concerned.

 

[Michel H]

(error)

 

[Arcade22]

I can't see how this is not suicidal.
It's not like EU will send an army to defend them against Russian invasion. That's just not feasible at this time. And they are much smaller and weaker than Ukraine.

Do you think Russias resources are infinite or something? Given how much hardware and lives they are expending in Ukraine they are not going to be in any shape to keep invading countries.

 

[crescent]

There has been fighting near the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant - apparently the largest nuke plant in Europe.

Now there's a fire, flames and smoke are visible.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499531172493373445

️️️As a result of the shelling at the #Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, a fire started. The exact location of the fire is being specified. CCTV cameras at the plant show flames and smoke.

And in the horrible bizarre modern techno world terror of all this, there's a livestream of the place, and the fire is visible in it



The fire is on the right side. The big glaring light at lower left seems to be a fire - hopefully just in a parking lot. There's also smoke coming in from off-screen on the lower right.


ETA: Right after I posted that I looked at the live feed for a moment, and another bomb or shell or something hit it. Big flash, the car alarms went off (headlights flashing), more smoke.

ETA2:...and another hit. I'm sitting here watching a nuke plant get shelled.

ETA3: Camera's being moved around, now it is hard to tell what's smoke and what's the normal sort of steam one might expect for an old nuke plant.

ETA4: Twitter feed suggests that its an office/admin building that's on fire. That's...less bad. But the place is clear still getting shelled.

 

[trustbutverify]

Saying you're willing to play at brinkmanship is the most basic initial step of playing at brinkmanship.

Yes. But in this case, nobodies going to believe it. You need a way to make your adversary at least consider it a viable possibility.

 

[theprestige]

It would be totally transparent that he ONLY reason for Georgia to join the EU is to fall under this CSDP provision, i.e. to draw EU countries into a direct military confrontation - a war - with Russia.
Which no one in any EU country (except maybe Romania in the case of Moldova) could remotely be interested in - after all, it's already quite a load to stay vigilant on Ukraine's western border.
I don't see this change in the near future - but I can easily see Russia invading Moldova and Georgia in the near future. They now have the excuse.

This is edging from Chamberlain into Quisling territory. Victim-blaming, abuse enablement... Maybe you should start going around to battered women's shelters, give some lectures on how to not make your husband hit you.

 

[theprestige]

Yes. But in this case, nobodies going to believe it. You need a way to make your adversary at least consider it a viable possibility.

Simon says taking a big step towards the brink, with your arms wide open, a big grin on your face, saying "come at me, bro" tends to do the trick. NATO bombing campaign when?

ETA: What I meant tho is that Putin has indicated he's willing to play at brinkmanship, but we don't have to take him at his word. There's more to that game than just saying you're willing to play it.

 

[trustbutverify]

We aren't. Mainstream dems were already pretty pro-Ukraine and anti-Putin before... with a few exceptions. The right wing-o-sphere changed their tune overnight. I think maybe some posters here really have no day to to day dealing with Trumpers and would never ever tune their TV to Fox News. I do. If anything the GOP at large has become more hawkish than the dems; the about face that right wing pundits have done on the subject is enough to cause whiplash (do I believe its genuine and the like Tucker have really had a change of heart? no, he saw which way prevailing opinion wents of). My dad... no longer supports Trump, never thought I'd see the day. Anyways, I don't believe higher gas prices are even a little bit close to enough to sway the US public much on this issue.

How Carlson can get away with playing victim whenever anyone quotes his own words back to him is amazing. Can someone fill me in on how he explained smugly rooting for Putin to win to where he is now?

 

[Mike!]

There has been fighting near the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant - apparently the largest nuke plant in Europe.

Now there's a fire, flames and smoke are visible.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499531172493373445


And in the horrible bizarre modern techno world terror of all this, there's a livestream of the place, and the fire is visible in it



The fire is on the right side. The big glaring light at lower left seems to be a fire - hopefully just in a parking lot. There's also smoke coming in from off-screen on the lower right.


ETA: Right after I posted that I looked at the live feed for a moment, and another bomb or shell or something hit it. Big flash, the car alarms went off (headlights flashing), more smoke.

ETA2:...and another hit. I'm sitting here watching a nuke plant get shelled.

ETA3: Camera's being moved around, now it is hard to tell what's smoke and what's the normal sort of steam one might expect for an old nuke plant.

ETA4: Twitter feed suggests that its an office/admin building that's on fire. That's...less bad. But the place is clear still getting shelled.

Nice. So this war might go nuclear still, bombs or not.
Maybe it's time to call Putin's bluff and bring a full stop to this nonsense before there's an honest to goodness repeat of Chernobyl in the south when some bonehead shells the reactor.

 

[trustbutverify]

3. If you do not want WW3, you must give Putin a respectful Out. Demanding his unconditional withdrawal without massaging his grievances will not lead to peace, and may lead to worse things than we have now.

Putin can't afford to lose face here. I mean really, really can't. Not domestically, and not internationally. A man in his position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous.

 

[acbytesla]

Unfortunately, Germany did not seize Russian oligarch's 500+ foot yacht Dilbar yesterday. It is in Hamburg awaiting work. France today did seize the 280 foot yacht of another Oligarch.

What is going to happen to the Dilbar is unknown.

 

[Steve]

All that is a conspiracy to weaken Russia this is just too bad that Ukrainians be the victime

Gibberish. Try again when you are sober.

 

[trustbutverify]

Sadly, I think Putin's response would be to call them traitors and put them on the Polonium Cocktail list.

Well, I know one guy who's gotten the message loud and clear. He knows when to keep his big hero mouth shut.

 

[Olmstead]

So this war might go nuclear still, bombs or not.
Maybe it's time to call Putin's bluff and bring a full stop to this nonsense before there's an honest to goodness repeat of Chernobyl in the south when some bonehead shells the reactor.

Chernobyl my ass. This plant is like 10 times bigger.

Probably should get those iodine tablets after all.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It appears the president of Belarus let slip that Moldova is getting invaded no matter what anyways. https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1498684008288423936 If you look close you can see red lines crossing into Moldova.

Nearby to Georgia is another small very oil rich former SSR, Azerbaijan. Have to wonder if they're next, or if they're already buddy buddy with Putin.

Wouldn't doing poorly in Ukraine change that battle plan?