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The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

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FSB providing intelligence to Ukrainian Security Forces? WTF?

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/pres...assassination-plot-foiled-fsb-ukraine-1493210

A plot to assassinate Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been foiled by his country’s armed forces thanks to a tip off by Russia’s Federal Security Services (FSB) who “didn’t want to take part in this bloody war”, Ukraine has said.

An elite group of Chechen special forces, known as Kadyrovites, had sought to “eliminate” the Ukrainian leader but were “destroyed” on Tuesday night, according to Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council chief Oleksiy Danilov.

“We are well aware of the special operation that was to take place directly by the Kadyrovites to eliminate our president,” Mr Danilo said, according to a Telegram post written on Tuesday by the Center for Strategic Communications.
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Honestly, blocking RT and stuff might have been rash and misguided from a counter-propaganda point of view because it just gives Russia extra talking points at home, but no one really cares to obsess over the decision right now. It's done, no reason to make it a distraction.
 
Arcade22 said:
Because the only people who really care about Putin rattling his nuclear missiles are either fearful fools or his supporters struggling to justify why we shouldn't support Ukraine. The so called "peace front". The kind of people who go "Oh no! nuclear weapons! The apocalypse! We must not let this happen! Lets just give Putin what he wants! Better red than dead!".
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Yep, just a lousy "peace front" type over here, quaking in my boots. I'd be a hippy, too, if I could remember where my bong was at, man.

So anyway, what do you suggest then?

ETA:

Wait. Was this what you were getting at?

He's not going launch nuclear weapons just because he feels a little flustered at how poorly this invasion is going.
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I don't think anyone was suggesting he would. It changes if NATO gets involved militarily.
 
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Arcade22 said:
It's not like this invasion is just something out of the blue. It's not a sudden outburst by a brain damaged fool. Russia first invaded Ukraine back in 2014 and has been at war with Ukraine ever since.

The fact that Putin chose to escalate things to full blown invasion is not a sign of mental illness but rather his frustration and fear that all his efforts are going to be in vain since things were going nowhere. The Ukrainians shut down the pro-Russian puppet party and arrested its oligarch leader as they were apparently planning a potential coup.

Putin is not insane or brain damaged. His historic grand view of the world and his place in it is severely tainted by vainglorious hubris, but it is internally consistent. The fact that he is willing to sacrifice his country's economy and the lives of its soldiers on some misguided quest to reestablish his nations perceived greatness is rational based on his beliefs because he values that over all things. He's not going launch nuclear weapons just because he feels a little flustered at how poorly this invasion is going.

Hitler was not insane yet he started WW2 with the same kind of disregard for his soldiers lives and the German economy.
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Agreed, but I was not replying about the invasion in general... This was in context specifically about the threats to use nuclear weapons against the West if we interfered.

Our retaliatory capacity and policy is not something he would be misinformed or uninformed about. I'm detecting that he might not care, which appears to be a new development, and trying to make sense of that.

And just to clarify: vascular dementia from stroke is not mental illness or insanity. It's a medical condition.
 
Oystein said:
And indeed, a point can be made that, in general, lying should not be made illegal as such.
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Not 'as such' but we definitely carve out conditions where it is.

Skeptics are pretty on board with commercial fraud being illegal, for example. And in pretty much every case, it's just lying for money.

I'd put propagating foreign government lies with the objective to undermine democracy in the same bucket.
 
Oystein said:
The name of your fallacy is "Ad Hominem".
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Specifically a subtype called the Genetic FallacyWP.

But there is value in context. The principle of Fellow Travellers is relevant to assess reliability and motives when performing critical analysis of a claim.
 
It seems the trolls got their instructions that the troll narrative was going to be "There's Nazis in the Ukraine so *mumble reasons* that makes it okay" because that seems to be the one they seem to be using the most.
 
Michel H said:
And what was your impression, in that case?
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It's a sophisticated propaganda outfit for Vladimir Putin.

Did you also have an impression of objectivity and professionalism
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Yes, about the same impression I get from Freedom Magazine. Slick propaganda by a criminal organization.

Did you read some of the articles by the excellent Scott Ritter, published by RT.com ?
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Sure I have. Ritter is a professional apologist for Putin who is skilled at not making it seem too obvious. Which is exactly what makes him useful at Russia Today.
 
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It doesn't matter. The trolls have been told what the alternative narrative is and there's no stopping it now. "Ukraine had Nazis." We're just going to get a billion and one different versions of that and we have no tools left to counter it.
 
abaddon said:
You mean Scott Ritter the convicted pedophile?
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This Scott Ritter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter#Arrests_and_conviction.

When I said he was excellent, I referred to his professional abilities, not to his private life (I should say that have some doubts about current laws regarding sex and nudity, but this is obviously off topic).

I was very impressed by an article he had published on RT.com, about the U.S. drone strike which had mistakenly killed several people in Kabul, in August 2021 (see https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58935260).
 
Some interesting speculation on Russian maintenance in this thread:

https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1499164245250002944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499164245250002944%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_891df1d4-9a8c-11ec-ab5e-92be2145d5a0%2F0
This is a thread that will explain the implied poor Russian Army truck maintenance practices based on this photo of a Pantsir-S1 wheeled gun-missile system's right rear pair of tires below & the operational implications during the Ukrainian mud season.
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Arcade22 said:
Oh so we should just tolerate Russian propaganda and disinformation? Let them lie and defame people every single day while pretending to be journalists?

Thankfully we are not that stupid. Freedom of speech has its limits, such as spreading lies and propaganda on behalf of a increasingly belligerent hostile power.
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We know that RT is putting out Russian propaganda. However, it's not as if RT is forced on anybody. You have to seek it out and that would only be done by Russian sympathizers and people who might want to gain an insight into the views of the average Russian citizen.

Why prevent people who want to access this source from doing so? It only makes it appear that we have something to hide.
 
It looks like RT has been banned/blocked by Google.

Not coming up on the first page of results.


Eta: this may have been mentioned. This thread moves fast and I've skipped a lot today.
 
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