Trans women are not women (Part 8)

[Rolfe]

The YouTube clip of the swimmer's mother is back up, after having been repeatedly taken down for most of the past two days. This in itself is interesting. Has anyone every encountered gender-critical activists lobbying YouTube to have pro-trans material pulled? I haven't. It's also interesting that this time the good guys appear to be winning.

Because the mother is remaining anonymous to protect her daughter the clip is accompanied by still photos. There are some there of Thomas that reveal very clearly how masculine he is. Apparently he is six feet four and built like a tank. (Not that I'm saying a five-foot weakling should be allowed to swim against the girls either, but the point is, if you allow men in then the six-feet-four ones are included.)

 

[Rolfe]

The NYTimes story that was still being written earlier has gone to press.

The broad strokes from the previous link are the same, but they add this context:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/us/texas-child-abuse-trans-youth.html

Fending off challenges from the right by proving their bona fides at the expense of trans residents of the state.

American politics. I don't care. Deal with your own politics.

You need to explain why castrating children is a good thing, not constantly deflect by saying "these politicians are bad".

 

[Elaedith]

Kathleen Stock has started a substack. The content is free for the first year. The first article looks good.

"Even if you don’t particularly care about saving women’s spaces or sports from the incursions of males with female identities, or protecting minors from irrevocable and incapacitating bodily changes they may later regret, you should at least care about how your public institutions were soundlessly infiltrated by special interest groups - and then manipulated, not just into doing those groups’ utterly mad bidding without proper forethought or scrutiny, but also into trying to prohibit open discussion of the entire process. If it happened once - and boy, did it happen, and still is happening - it can happen again"

 

[Rolfe]

That's to the point, for sure.

This is interesting, given ST's obsession with this being all about the "Christian right".

My antagonists in this dispute are nearly all on the so-called progressive Left, a tribe to which I used to assume I too belonged.

 

[Ziggurat]

It's handy to have a catch-all term like "gender affirming care" for what is a variety of different treatments related to treating transgender patients.

"Medical transition" covers that without hiding its nature. Hell, it's not even a negative descriptor. You didn't choose "gender affirming care" because you needed a catch-all term. You're using a propaganda term because you're trying to engage in propaganda, not discussion.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

"Medical transition" covers that without hiding its nature. Hell, it's not even a negative descriptor. You didn't choose "gender affirming care" because you needed a catch-all term. You're using a propaganda term because you're trying to engage in propaganda, not discussion.

"gender affirming care" includes social transition as well, which is as much under fire by these transphobes as anything else.

I had no idea this was such an important hair to split for you. If it makes you happy, I'll agree that Texas is attempting to repress trans people by threatening doctors, parents, etc who provide medical transition care to trans minors.

 

[lionking]

The YouTube clip of the swimmer's mother is back up, after having been repeatedly taken down for most of the past two days. This in itself is interesting. Has anyone every encountered gender-critical activists lobbying YouTube to have pro-trans material pulled? I haven't. It's also interesting that this time the good guys appear to be winning.

Because the mother is remaining anonymous to protect her daughter the clip is accompanied by still photos. There are some there of Thomas that reveal very clearly how masculine he is. Apparently he is six feet four and built like a tank. (Not that I'm saying a five-foot weakling should be allowed to swim against the girls either, but the point is, if you allow men in then the six-feet-four ones are included.)

That video was taken down? Trans rights activists simply want to silence debate.

 

[theprestige]

It's handy to have a catch-all term like "gender affirming care" for what is a variety of different treatments related to treating transgender patients.

It's handy mainly because it means you don't actually have to acknowledge or defend specific treatments under that umbrella. We want to know what specific treatments you include and justify as "gender-affirming care". Falling back on that term and stalling out saves you from having to address such inquiries.

 

[Rolfe]

"gender affirming care" includes social transition as well, which is as much under fire by these transphobes as anything else.

I am not sure what Texas is doing about social transition, especially because I think that is likely to be a difficult thing to regulate, but it's not without harm. It has been shown that if a gender nonconforming boy is simply allowed to be himself, wear what he wants, play with what he wants and so on, without making any big deal about it, most of the time he'll simply grow out of it. If he doesn't, that's another story, but most do.

However, if you change his name and tell everyone that he's a girl and use feminine language to refer to him, and in particular if you start calling him stunning and brave and throw a party to celebrate his stunning bravery, and probably especually if you get him on a TV show as being a wonderful, brave and stunning transgirl, the poor kid is painted into a corner. There's no way back without (a) enormous loss of face and (b) disappointing his mother, who is usually completely invested in having a "daughter". The overwhelming majority of such boys end up being castrated, one way or another.

One thing few people talk about. AGP men who transition as adults almost always keep their male genitalia. They're quite vocal about their position that their penis doesn't make them any the less female and they're attached to it and intend to stay attached to it. And yet the top priority for these poor boys is to cut their dicks off. Removing from them the choice that the majority of adult-transitioning men make.

Yeah, I'd ban social transition too, if I knew how to.

 

[Ziggurat]

"gender affirming care" includes social transition as well, which is as much under fire by these transphobes as anything else.

Then this is even more dishonest, because none of the recent moves in Texas have anything to do with social transition. So you're trying to imply that they are doing something that they aren't. You are indeed just playing propaganda games.

I had no idea this was such an important hair to split for you. If it makes you happy, I'll agree that Texas is attempting to repress trans people by threatening doctors, parents, etc who provide medical transition care to trans minors.

Whether something is illegal or not isn't a hair split. You can't cover up your dishonesty by blaming me for calling it out.

 

[Rolfe]

That video was taken down? Trans rights activists simply want to silence debate.

I tried multiple times to see it earlier, to no effect. In the end I found an audio-only version somewhere else (with the entire event, including some other interesting speakers), and earlier today another audio version and a transcript were posted.

My first conclusion when the video was taken down was that the person posting it had backed off because she didn't like the high-profile publicity, but I realise now that wasn't the case. YouTube pulled it because of a barrage of pressure from the trans lobby.

The YouTube version is interesting for the pitcures of the six-feet-four built like a tank "Miss" Thomas.

 

[Ziggurat]

I am not sure what Texas is doing about social transition

Nothing. They aren't doing anything at all.

 

[Emily's Cat]

She also pointed out that puberty blockers are highly controversial, with more and more evidence emerging that they are by no means safe. To write athletics participation rules in a way that encourages the use of these dangerous drugs would be foolhardy.

The arguments about puberty blockers really make my head spin. That drug was originally used to chemically castrate prisoners, but was discontinued because the side effects were considered cruel and unusual punishment. Then they started using it on females to treat endometriosis... and there's now a large class action law suit because of the side effects.

But they still keep singing the propaganda that the same drug is "safe and reversible" for pubescent kids.

 

[Rolfe]

Nothing. They aren't doing anything at all.

I think that's pretty much inevitable because I don't see how you could ban it. Arguably, it could be considered an inappropriate interference in family life.

Social transition is however the first step on to the highway with no off-ramp. If you keep agreeing with a boy that he's a girl, calling him Jane or Jennifer or Jazz or whatever, and keep encouraging him to hate his male genitals and to look forward to the day when the doctor will turn him into a girl, then the damage is usually done.

Just about the only possible way to mitigate harm in this case is to prohibit any medical or surgical intervention until the oldest age legally possible. At list this gives the victim some chance of getting hold of the situation and getting off the conveyor belt before irreversible harm has been done.

 

[Rolfe]

The arguments about puberty blockers really make my head spin. That drug was originally used to chemically castrate prisoners, but was discontinued because the side effects were considered cruel and unusual punishment. Then they started using it on females to treat endometriosis... and there's now a large class action law suit because of the side effects.

But they still keep singing the propaganda that the same drug is "safe and reversible" for pubescent kids.

You seem to understand the situation pretty well. I'm not sure why your head is spinning. Of course, it's handy for the drug companies with the patents on these things that a use has been found for them, isn't it? (I don't think the amount they were selling to me to conduct tests to see whether rescue bitches were already spayed or still intact would have been generating much revenue for them.)

ETA: Last week I watched the latest of these Swedish films exposing the trans industry. That one featured a girl who still seems to be on the path of "becoming a man". She was anonymised and we never saw her face. Her parents had been supportive, because they'd been led to believe that's what they had to do. Affirm, affirm. She was put on puberty blockers aged eleven. At fifteen she had stopped growing and was way under the height she should have reached as a girl. Nobody even mentioned how difficult this would make it for her as a "man", given the difficulties short men face. They were far more concerned by her osteoporosis, or was it osteopenia, and her constant back pain. Spinal x-rays showed the shape of her vertebral bodies changing to wedge-shape and vertebral body fractures looked seriously probable.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Honestly when you first started on this AGP tear, I thought was pretty conspiracy-theoretical and transphobic. Nowadays I'm wondering just how much AGP nonsense is going on under cover of trans-activism.

A whole lot. And much of it isn't even "under cover". There are a huge number of pretty blatantly paraphilic males out there pushing this agenda. They simultaneously deny that AGP even exists.

But seriously, it's not subtle. Andrea Long Chu, Julia Serrano, Grace Lavery, Torey Peters. It's not like it's actually hidden that these dysphoric males get a sexual thrill from cross-dressing, being treated like females by a misogynistic society, and transgressing the boundaries of females.

 

[theprestige]

The YouTube version is interesting for the pitcures of the six-feet-four built like a tank "Miss" Thomas.

East German Olympic Committee: "It's not cheating if our women's team happens to look like steroid-enhanced dudes, is it?"

Trans-Inclusionist: "Hold my mimosa and watch this."

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Part 8? Seems Trans is the new circumcision around these parts.

The wonderful irony about members of the "Trans-rights" movement is they reinforce the gender stereotypes a few years back they were probably campaigning against. Is your son interested in playing with dolls and wearing dresses and makeup? Clearly he's a she with the "wrong" body for her brain.

What does "wrong" body even mean? I'm in the "wrong" universe because I should be in one of the one's in which I'm a multi-millionaire with no mortgage, a perfect physique and can run a sub 6-minute mile.

There are plenty of lucid people in psych wards all over the world that believe all sorts of things about themselves. Unfortunately for them no one else is legally bound to go along with their delusions of being the next coming of Christ or probed by aliens, etc.

I suspect like most groups based with non-sensical ideas at their core the LGBTIAQ+ (hopefully no more letters or symbols been added in the few minutes it took to write this post) "community" will tear themselves apart as the nonsense one faction believes conflicts with the nonsense other factions believe.

If not the rest of the world will eventually just tell them to **** off and get a proper job.

 

[Emily's Cat]

If transwomen were really women, they'd understand how other women feel and try to be accommodating and kind.

I found it interesting when I started reading more and interacting on this topic outside of ISF - there ARE quite a few dysphoric males who are aware and comfortable with the fact that they are males, and they tend to identify "with" females, rather than "as" females. And most of those, despite being dysphoric, and many living as females as much as possible... are ALSO quite strongly gender critical.

The behavioral differences between HSTS and AGP males is markedly different.

Where it gets iffy are the young people currently identifying as "trans" who are autistic, and are neither HSTS nor AGP. They aren't even truly dysphoric. They just have trouble making connections and have been sold a bill of goods that if they "transition" to the opposite sex it will fix all of their problems. It's makes me quite sad.

 

[Rolfe]

Part 8? Seems Trans is the new circumcision around these parts.

The wonderful irony about members of the "Trans-rights" movement is they reinforce the gender stereotypes a few years back they were probably campaigning against. Is your son interested in playing with dolls and wearing dresses and makeup? Clearly he's a she with the "wrong" body for her brain.

What does "wrong" body even mean? I'm in the "wrong" universe because I should be in one of the one's in which I'm a multi-millionaire with no mortgage, a perfect physique and can run a sub 6-minute mile.

There are plenty of lucid people in psych wards all over the world that believe all sorts of things about themselves. Unfortunately for them no one else is legally bound to go along with their delusions of being the next coming of Christ or probed by aliens, etc.

I suspect like most groups based with non-sensical ideas at their core the LGBTIAQ+ (hopefully no more letters or symbols been added in the few minutes it took to write this post) "community" will tear themselves apart as the nonsense one faction believes conflicts with the nonsense other factions believe.

If not the rest of the world will eventually just tell them to **** off and get a proper job.

Yeah, you are so right. Trans activism is the most sexist thing of all. No, you can't be a man if you want to wear a dress. You can't be a woman if you mend your own tractor.