The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[JoeMorgue]

The original signatories to the Warsaw Treaty Organization were the Soviet Union, Albania, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, and the German Democratic Republic. Aside from some members of the former Soviet Union none of the other countries listed above would join a new Warsaw Pact. So what exactly would the West be worried about?

The fact that not liking the United States is the only thing a lot of countries can seem to agree on.

 

[theprestige]

You misunderstood me.

I meant that if one cared about that. It's hardly the type of ordnance that Putin would find a use for.

Ah, fair enough. I was writing more in mind of the use of thermobarics by Western forces, and of the fact that collateral damage is weapon-agnostic, not weapon-specific.

 

[timhau]

A new pact in spirit. A collection of bad actors around the world who are unified in their being left out in the cold while the "good guys" hang out at the UN. The whole point of the UN is to give even the bad actors a voice, some input into world affairs, rather than leaving them alone to nurse their grievances in solitude, or in secret solidarity with other bad actors.

The UN was created to give a voice to Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal?!?

 

[theprestige]

Populist leader in the Americas. See also Bolsonaro. He hasn't gone as far as calling it genius though.

I like how refusing to sanction Russia is tolerable, but saying Putin made a smart move is beyond the pale. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

 

[timhau]

No. What causes collateral damage is non-combatants near to the target. Regular bombs can cause a lot of collateral damage, if their target happens to be around a bunch of civilians or whatever.

A thermobaric bomb, in the right circumstances, just does the same damage as a handful of conventional bombs. It's a way to get the same military effect with a smaller payload. This translates directly into less risk to pilots and planes, and higher operational tempos, since you can get more done with fewer sorties.

For precision strikes that mitigate the risk of collateral damage in crowded areas, the Small-Diameter Bomb has been developed. This is the opposite of a thermobaric. It's a small bomb designed to have an extremely small blast radius. It's good for when you have a very clear, very small target, and you can rely on your targeting systems to hit it exactly.

Thanks for the correction. Blast radius was what I had in mind.

 

[jimbob]

A new pact in spirit. A collection of bad actors around the world who are unified in their being left out in the cold while the "good guys" hang out at the UN. The whole point of the UN is to give even the bad actors a voice, some input into world affairs, rather than leaving them alone to nurse their grievances in solitude, or in secret solidarity with other bad actors.

Kicking Russia out of the UN would make things worse, not better. Making that the beginning of a trend of kicking out annoying nations would end up creating an anti-UN that would make things a lot worse in the long run.

Agreed

 

[Aridas]

A new pact in spirit. A collection of bad actors around the world who are unified in their being left out in the cold while the "good guys" hang out at the UN. The whole point of the UN is to give even the bad actors a voice, some input into world affairs, rather than leaving them alone to nurse their grievances in solitude, or in secret solidarity with other bad actors.

Kicking Russia out of the UN would make things worse, not better. Making that the beginning of a trend of kicking out annoying nations would end up creating an anti-UN that would make things a lot worse in the long run.

Not going to argue with that. With that said, I don't see as much of an issue with reducing Russia's power and influence in the UN.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Of course they had no choice but to attack the Radio and TV transmitting tower. Not only is it a perfectly legitimate military target, it's a necessary one to end the Ukrainian Nazis genocide. As Kiselov says on Russian TV: they whip the Ukrainians into a ghastly murderous frenzy with their vile propaganda, becoming more like savage beasts than people.

TV transmitting towers are one the first things I would have attacked if I was invading a country.

 

[Jimbo07]

Start kicking countries out of the UN, and pretty soon you've created a new Warsaw Pact. Nobody besides Russia wants a new Warsaw Pact.

Agreed

Not going to argue with that. With that said, I don't see as much of an issue with reducing Russia's power and influence in the UN.

That's what people who complain about the UN fundamentally misunderstand. The mere existence of the UN makes the world a better place. You don't just kick Russia out.

The US and USSR were original signatories to the UN Charter. There was no love lost between them during the Cold War. It wasn't at the UN, but I believe Krushchev said, "We will bury you!" They weren't friends then, either!

Some things seem silly (like human rights abusers on the HRC), but I don't think its existence nor memembership should be discounted.

 

[Klimax]

...
But there is a simple truth: Russia WILL win this phase of the war, Russia WILL take Kyiv. Russia WILL annex Luhansk and Donezk, and do some ethnic cleansing there.
Russia WILL succeed with their main goal: To **** Ukraine and reduce it to bits and pieces and, yes, de-militarized in terms of regular warfare.
...

First, no thanks to Germany. Your waffling in the first few days was some stellar ****. It took you a long time to change your bloody stance. (Sending something to Ukraine and support for sanctions)

Second, given speed of advance and supply of modern weapons to Ukraine, your certainty is certainly quite misplaced.

Also your skepticism is weirdly placed with unusual angle and odd target. Your posts are weird.

The UA may have captured a loaded TOS-1A. Should they use it?

Of course. There are quite few large juicy targets with no civilian structures in sight...

Really happy to see that this thread is moving 100x faster than the Russian advance.

Tortoise would be faster than that.

and fly through a hail of manpads?

There is a reason that the Warthog is being retired.

You think Russians have working manpads?

It seems to me there are some easy concessions Ukraine and its Western allies could easily make, and which would perhaps avoid further bloodshed and suffering:

(1) Accepting the independence of the two breakaway republics of Donbass (Donetsk and Lugansk). Russia could station troops there if deemed necessary for protection, upon invitation from their respective goverments.

(2) Accepting that Crimea is part of Russia.

(3) Accepting that Ukraine will not be a NATO member for at least 10 years.

(4) Lifting all economic sanctions imposed on Russia (even those which existed before this recent attack by Russia) provided that all Russian troops have left Ukraine (where they shouldn't be). With the understanding that a lifting of sanctions would also be good for Western economies and ordinary citizens.

Does "H" in your screen name stand for (Konrad) Heinlein? He would approve of your post.

 

[theprestige]

What turned me around on the UN was learning more about the run-up to World War I. There was a lot of, governments that should have been talking to each other not talking to each other. And a lot of, governments signing secret deals with their ally's enemy, against their ally's interests.

The UN provides a hedge against that kind of thing happening again. This is why I firmly believe that Russia should retain its seat and its veto on the UN Security Council. The fact that even the UNSC couldn't prevent this current conflict is to me the most distressing sign of where world peace is heading in the near future.

 

[TragicMonkey]

A new pact in spirit. A collection of bad actors around the world who are unified in their being left out in the cold while the "good guys" hang out at the UN. The whole point of the UN is to give even the bad actors a voice, some input into world affairs, rather than leaving them alone to nurse their grievances in solitude, or in secret solidarity with other bad actors.

Kicking Russia out of the UN would make things worse, not better. Making that the beginning of a trend of kicking out annoying nations would end up creating an anti-UN that would make things a lot worse in the long run.

A Legion of Doom?

 

[theprestige]

A Legion of Doom?

Either that or a World Crime League.

 

[Michel H]

The radio and TV transmitting tower is a perfectly legitimate military target. "No choice" is an awkward turn of phrase, but modern doctrine is pretty clear that such communications infrastructure absolutely should be targeted at the earliest opportunity. I'm not sure where you're going with the rest of your post, but yeah, Russia really should have hit this thing on Day 0.

I find your post rather odd. This is a civilian piece of equipment (not a military target) which was seriously damaged without clear warning, and at least five people died (see https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/01/russian-strike-hits-kyiv-tv-tower-cuts-broadcasts-a76692 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv_TV_Tower#2022_missile_strike for some details).

Your post seems to suggest that U.S. military academies are war criminal factories.

 

[shemp]

It's too bad that the Ukrainians didn't think months or years ago to dig tunnels under that road and plant them with explosives that could be set off in just such an emergency.






Or DID they?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I find your post rather odd. This is a civilian piece of equipment (not a military target) which was seriously damaged without clear warning, and at least five people died (see https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/01/russian-strike-hits-kyiv-tv-tower-cuts-broadcasts-a76692 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv_TV_Tower#2022_missile_strike for some details).

Your post seems to suggest that U.S. military academies are war criminal factories.

Communications infrastructure is a legitimate target.

 

[jimbob]

It's too bad that the Ukrainians didn't think months or years ago to dig tunnels under that road and plant them with explosives that could be set off in just such an emergency.






Or DID they?

In 1956 the Hungarians delayed the Soviet troops by placing upturned crockery on the streets. They had to be checked in case they contained mines.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Putin knows he can't win this. It's now just a matter of how many civilians he wants to murder before it's all over.

 

[Armitage72]

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022...terms-for-fakes-about-ukraine-invasion-a76687

I was and still am skeptical towards the idea that Russia has mobile crematoria to discretely dispose of their dead and literally destroy evidence of casualties, but honestly given the Baghdad Bob level of lying they are engaging in i'm starting to think it is probably true.

There were reports of them being used back in 2015 as well, but those stories didn't come from reliable sources either.



In the early days of the Batttletech tabletop game, wars were fought with machines that were centuries old, held together with baling wire and tack welds, missing armor, low on fuel and ammunition, with weapons that were broken or likely to malfunction. Who knew that FASA was so prophetic?

 

[crescent]

Putin and the Duma are doubling down on this:

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1498742057682284555

Ekho Moskvy radio and TV Dozhd we’re both just shut down. The most prominent of the few Russian outlets allowed to be critical of the Kremlin. Putin is increasing the news blackout to prepare for more atrocities in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/HarlysCorner/status/1498397647832502274

BREAKING: #Russian #Duma is working on a bill to make spreading of information about Russian #WarCrimes illegal and punishable up to 15-year jail sentence.

They themselves, obviously, call it "spreading fakes about the same"

So, when you spread the truth, you are a criminal.

(the cite for this is in the tweet.)