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The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

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crescent said:
It does show a war crime - Russian soldiers in Ukrainian uniforms using Ukrainian vehicles with Ukrainian livery. We can show you footage of Nazis in American uniforms during the battle of the bulge, using American jeeps marked up as being in the American military. They were executed too.
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This is sarcasm, right? You're not actually claiming, without any supporting evidence whatsoever, that footage of Ukrainian troops is actually footage of Russian troops disguised as Ukrainians?

It really, really sucks that we need to dust off all the old cold war era advice about what to do in the event of a nuclear exchange. : mad ::(
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Imagine my surprise when I learned that "anti radiation pills" weren't a sick joke, but actually a sober and practical remedy.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
why not? the Ukrainians seem to be far better trained, they aren’t staying to slug it out hand to hand, they are using drones and missiles, ambushing an advance then retreating to new positions. I can believe the Russian casualties are far higher. If you look at Russian tactics in WW2 in the same area and their Cold War doctrine high casualties were part of the plan.
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Agreed, but thousands seems like a lot of casualties to inflict, by light infantry doing onsie-twosie ambushes and then scarpering to their next defensive positions. How densely do Russian units have to be concentrated, and how poorly organized and defended, for the Ukrainians to be racking up such high kill counts at such low cost to themselves? Unless the Russians are just rolling face-first into serial ambushes, without any reconnaissance screens or fire support, for days on end...
 
Captain_Swoop said:
why not? the Ukrainians seem to be far better trained, they aren’t staying to slug it out hand to hand, they are using drones and missiles, ambushing an advance then retreating to new positions. I can believe the Russian casualties are far higher. If you look at Russian tactics in WW2 in the same area and their Cold War doctrine high casualties were part of the plan.
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They have probably killed more Ukrainian civilians than that.

Bellingcat has documented examples of cluster munitions used in civilian areas

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/202...g-use-of-cluster-munitions-in-civilian-areas/
 
theprestige said:
Agreed, but thousands seems like a lot of casualties to inflict, by light infantry doing onsie-twosie ambushes and then scarpering to their next defensive positions. How densely do Russian units have to be concentrated, and how poorly organized and defended, for the Ukrainians to be racking up such high kill counts at such low cost to themselves? Unless the Russians are just rolling face-first into serial ambushes, without any reconnaissance screens or fire support, for days on end...
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It's hard to say.

Invading is always more dangerous than defending, and even more so for large urban centers.

If it's as bad as some of the sources say, it seems only a matter of time before the Russians decide they've had enough and start flattening entire cities.
 
JoeMorgue said:
It's been about 5 hours. Any word on if the talks did/are accomplishing anything?
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If I were the Russians, I'd keep the Ukrainian delegation cooling their heels for at least that long, before getting into such weighty matters as exactly how many chairs should be provided for each delegation, who gets to speak first, and how many potty breaks should be scheduled. The wrangling over these details could take at least another day or so. Then they can start talking about whether the Belarussian advance needs to be halted until the talks are concluded, or if it can continue in the meantime. Of course the Belarussian advance will continue, until that question is resolved. That part could take however long Belarus needs to finish getting its forces into their forward positions and ready for a big push. Then perhaps the actual negotiations will begin.
 
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theprestige said:
This is sarcasm, right? You're not actually claiming, without any supporting evidence whatsoever, that footage of Ukrainian troops is actually footage of Russian troops disguised as Ukrainians?


Imagine my surprise when I learned that "anti radiation pills" weren't a sick joke, but actually a sober and practical remedy.
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The raid into Kyiv was made by Russians in Ukrainian uniforms, yes. That was the raid that featured the out of control APC running over the car. There have been a few other examples of raids and sabatoge events made by Russians in Ukrainian uniforms.

Ukraine accuses Russian soldiers of stealing uniforms and vehicles to enter Kyiv


KYIV is under attack by groups of Russian troops wearing Ukrainian uniforms in the latest ploy by mad tyrant Vladimir Putin.
Pictures also showed a Ukrainian military truck and dead men wearing Ukrainian military uniforms who were allegedly actually disguised Russians.
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(this references the raid that Planigale was discussing)
 
Few minor things of note.

- UPS and FedEx have stopped shipments to/from Russia.
- The UK have begun steps to get Russia removed from Interpol.
- AT&T has waived all long distance charges to the Ukraine.
 
theprestige said:
Russia isn't better equipped though. Both Russia and Ukraine are equipped with the same late Soviet era stuff. Their respective upgrade programs for this older equipment are probably on par. Likewise their training and maintenance programs.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that Russia probably has more artillery especially rocket artillery,but Ukraine is getting more and better anti tank weapons. Ukraine probably has a better logistics situation and a better morale situation.

I don't know where this meme of the better equipped Russian is coming from.
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Russia has made quite the showing of infantry modernization for a few years now, most notably night-fighting and optics abilities as standard. C&C improvements were also supposed to have been implemented several years ago.

The fact that Russia is not conducting meaningful night fighting now, nor are optics being used as standard in the field by their infantry, kind of illustrates how much 'show' was in this showing.
 
theprestige said:
This is sarcasm, right? You're not actually claiming, without any supporting evidence whatsoever, that footage of Ukrainian troops is actually footage of Russian troops disguised as Ukrainians?
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The Ukrainians have captured Russian soldiers in civillian clothing, in Ukrainian military uniforms and in Ukrainian police uniforms.

That's why there is a strict curfew. Anyone caught outside during curfew, no matter what they wear, are considered an enemy.
 
theprestige said:
My bad. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not certain if the conventions of ethical warfare allow for summary battlefield execution of spies and infiltrators disguised as friendly troops. I think they do, though.
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They are not covered by the Geneva convention.

The Americans have set dangerous precedents on what you can do to these "illegal combatants".
 
Increase use of multiple launch rocket systems/grad in civilian areas, especially in Kharkiv and Mariupol.

They are very easy to document:

https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1498327824456945664
We're seeing a lot of images of cluster munitions being used in Ukraine, so there's a few things I want to highlight to assist with reporting of the incidents. There's two types of rockets, fired by BM-27 and BM-30 multiple rocket launchers.
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Generally when these munitions deploy their submunitions in the air the rocket motor and cluster munition section separate, and land in the ground, just like in this video from Ukraine, showing the cluster section impacting the ground.
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What's we're seeing across Ukraine are the remains of these rockets embedded in the ground, and often being misreported as unexploded rockets. This is evidence of a successful deployment of cluster munitions, not an unexploded weapon.
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They can land several hundreds meters away from where the cluster munitions are released, and the direction of impact can also be established by which way the munition remnants are pointing, like in this example
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However, it should also be noted the tail fin section can become detached, which can lead to misidentification. This picture shows both the rocket motor and the detached tail fin section nearby.
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In the case of Mariupol, Russian forces are releasing video of themselves firing the rockets at the city, and also putting out tweets and press releases accusing the Ukrainians of firing the rockets on their own city.
 
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The biggest threat to Putin maybe the billions Russian oligarchs are losing because of the sanctions and it will only get worse with the Swiss joining in.
 
Russia having such a large military and a shockingly small economy does mean sanctions make a lot more sense then they often do in these kind of conflicts.

Russia will run out of money before it runs out of tanks.
 
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