The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[jimbob]

The Russians know how to deal with insurgents in an urban environment far from their international borders. It's probably a bit different when you're creating a humanitarian crisis and committing war crimes just across the border from mobilized NATO member Poland.

And don't forget that NATO has some experience dealing with separatists, nationalists, and war criminals in Eastern Europe. And some experience dealing with aggressive dictators fielding poorly trained troops and obsolete Russian military hardware.

I think this conflict will take on a very different tone if Putin starts doing things to Ukranians that the rest of the world simply cannot ignore.

The highlighted.

And the Russian people.

Information is more available to Russians citizens than in the Soviet era. And videos of atrocities or bodybags, and defiant last stands by people who are supposed to welcome Russia is not going to play well with them.

Whilst the potential cost to the richest is almost certainly getting them to sharpen the knives (very quietly and very much in secret)

 

[Planigale]

I'll take the death of Russian soldiers over the death of Ukrainian soldiers any day.

The Ukraine never wanted this.

Nor, I am sure the did the Russian soldiers.

Maybe I am the only person who has actually had to deal with mangled bodies, the screaming and the smell of burnt flesh. It is all horrible.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Nor, I am sure the did the Russian soldiers.

Maybe I am the only person who has actually had to deal with mangled bodies, the screaming and the smell of burnt flesh. It is all horrible.

I have done it in an actual war.

 

[trustbutverify]

A military commentator on the BBC commented that from Checnya and Syria (Allepo?), the Russians knew how to deal with insurgents in an urban environment, and you really did not want that to happen. Lots of people being killed and lots of destruction is not a good thing.

You mean by carpet bombing entire provenances densely packed with defenseless civilians? I don't think that's going to work this time.

 

[jimbob]

Was every member of the Wehrmacht evil? No. But still, many had to die before Europe was liberated.

And to riff on Patton's phrase, it's better that a Russian troop dies for Putin's crimes than a Ukrainian dies for freedom

 

[crescent]

Reports of a paratrooper drop into Kiev right now, on the west side of the city

ETA: Just a single photo. The "parachutes" might just be puffs of smoke from anti-aircraft fire.

 

[Michel H]

Patriots will be deployed along the NATO borders with Russia.
They are a safeguard and message to Putin.

Wouldn't it be possible to send some Patriots to the Ukrainian military, to make this war shorter?

 

[theprestige]

Nor, I am sure the did the Russian soldiers.

Maybe I am the only person who has actually had to deal with mangled bodies, the screaming and the smell of burnt flesh. It is all horrible.

I reject the premise that only humans who have directly experienced a thing are capable of reasoning about a thing and reaching moral conclusions about a thing. We're not animals. One very significant way in which we're not animals is our ability to reason abstractly about the world around us. Your appeal to personal emotional privilege in these matters is dismissed with prejudice. Reason with us like a fellow human being, not like a dumb beast.

 

[llwyd]

Maybe I am the only person who has actually had to deal with mangled bodies, the screaming and the smell of burnt flesh. It is all horrible.

Yeps, you are totally right: we absolutely have to fight against the people who would inflict these things on humanity - if we wouldn't, all the world would gradually succumb to violence and death. Establishing peace and stable, protective civilization is absolutely our highest moral duty.

 

[eerok]

Putin overplayed his hand and overestimated his influence.
The world’s democracies are uniting in a way not seen since WWII.
Putin miscalculated, NATO will become as strong as ever.
Russia will be diminished.

This is what I'm hoping for. Plus no nukes, of course.

 

[Olmstead]

Nor, I am sure the did the Russian soldiers.

Maybe I am the only person who has actually had to deal with mangled bodies, the screaming and the smell of burnt flesh. It is all horrible.

There are reports that the Russians have just bombed the Okhmadyt children’s cancer hospital in Kyiv, killing at least one child. Forgive me if I feel little pity for anyone fighting on that side.

I'm also very much against the concept of "I was just following orders."

 

[Garrison]

At least the Germans seem to have woken up to the reality of the situation, now agreeing to move on Swift restrictions and a supplying weapons the Ukraine.

 

[Oystein]

Have you seen the "Hitler rants parodies" on YT? All based on his ranting in "Downfall"

Hitler's take on Russia's invasion of Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRYlA5-ARTY

(hmmm, usual YT tags didn't work)

Edited by jimbob: 

seems to work

It's surprisingly difficult to read WRONGLY translated English subtitles while hearing the German original, and understand them ^^

 

[Andy_Ross]

Commenting on the Russian invasion Tory MP Kevin Foster says (after passing the Cenotaph sculpture in the Houses of Parliament)
"After today's events it felt all the more poignant walking past this reminder of the sacrifice previous generations made to preserve democracy and restore peace in Europe. Sadly freedom is not free."

He then tweets to a Labour MP on the Home office ban on visas from the Ukraine

"Hi Luke, As you will be well aware there are a number of routes, not least our seasonal worker scheme you will recall from your Shadow DEFRA days"

Upholding the honour of the UK.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Reports of a paratrooper drop into Kiev right now, on the west side of the city

ETA: Just a single photo. The "parachutes" might just be puffs of smoke from anti-aircraft fire.

Only a madman would order a parachute drop in to an urban area.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Wouldn't it be possible to send some Patriots to the Ukrainian military, to make this war shorter?

No, they wouldn't know how to operate them for a start.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Well, the Ukraine wouldn't have any pilots or infrastructure or logistics for it and the USA isn't going tp put an F-35 in a position where one could be brought down and captured by the Russians.

How long do you think it takes to train a pilot to fly and fight and F-35?

I was wondering how long it takes to train ground crew to maintain, repair, fuel and arm F35s.

 

[Andy_Ross]

This is what I'm hoping for. Plus no nukes, of course.

That should have been NATO will 'emerge' as strong as ever

 

[Andy_Ross]

I was wondering how long it takes to train ground crew to maintain, repair, fuel and arm F35s.

Many months.

 

[Michel H]

No, they wouldn't know how to operate them for a start.

The operators could be trained in Poland.