The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[Vixen]

Well no, an invading force never has the moral high ground, and it's not like the Russians care.

Off topic, but this can show how effective the US 2nd amendment is. Can poorly trained civilians with hand-held weapons hold off an invading army?
After all, this is a dictator coming to take freedom.

I'm afraid I know the answer, but still.

It seems reckless to me for the Ukrainians to tell ordinary people to throw Molotov cocktails and take an AK rifle if they have had no military training. It is a measure of Ukraine's desperation that they have been handing out 18,000 (IIRC) rifles to anyone who wants to have a bash at resistance.

 

[lobosrul5]

It seems reckless to me for the Ukrainians to tell ordinary people to throw Molotov cocktails and take an AK rifle if they have had no military training. It is a measure of Ukraine's desperation that they have been handing out 18,000 (IIRC) rifles to anyone who wants to have a bash at resistance.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would consider Ukraine's situation as not desperate.

 

[Vixen]

They also threatened Sweden over Nato membership.
Anybody who doubts that Russia, under Putin, has become a thug nation is indulging in wilful ignorance.

Russia, as USSR or the Novgorodians have invaded Finland about 42 times, raping, pillaging, murdering and taking thousands of people prisoner as slaves, never to be seen again. Putin is no Peter the Great. More Ivan the Terrible.

 

[Vixen]

What is scary is Putin is openly claiming that Eastern and Central Europe should be in the Russian sphere of influence...ie return to puppet status.
Several of these countries are NATO members.
IAnd I am convinced that PUtin is , well, more then a little deranged.

Historically, the early tribes of the Venedi, the forefathers of the Slavs, were concentrated around the Vistula river, in Central Europe. The stretch between Finland and west of the Ural mountains belongs to the Finnish tribes. (Shhh, we are not allowed to sing the marching song, 'To the Urals' any more in case it upsets our dear eastern neighbours.)

Just sayin'.

 

[Vixen]

Nato just put it's emergecny repsonse force on alert.
US has now deployed Troops to all 3 of the Baltic states.

Estonia has responded magnificently.

#Estonia has just decided to additionally support #Ukraine with #Javelin anti-tank missile systems, medical equipment, personal protective gear and MRE food rations. Our assistance will be delivered to #Ukraine ASAP.

https://twitter.com/MoD_Estonia/status/1497199719730266134?s=20&t=zs3pm9nuTq053E2Uklh_Qg

 

[Andy_Ross]

It seems reckless to me for the Ukrainians to tell ordinary people to throw Molotov cocktails and take an AK rifle if they have had no military training. It is a measure of Ukraine's desperation that they have been handing out 18,000 (IIRC) rifles to anyone who wants to have a bash at resistance.

I think being invaded by Russia makes for a desperate situation.

Didn't someone once say
"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Seems the rouble has collapsed a bit. Shame most of the oligarchs keep their wealth out of Russia.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...t-collapse-invasion-ukraine-fiancial-meltdown

But that makes it vulnerable to sanctions like freezing accounts.

 

[Vixen]

....and the Russian forces were told that they were going in to stop a genocide. Strongly united civilian resistance may cause them to question that. "if we're supposed to be saving them, why are they trying so hard to kill us?" As in, just like Vietnam, Afghanistan (Russian version), Iraq, Afghanistan (U.S. version). They become less supportive of the mission as they realize how unwelcome they are.

British journalist, Graham Philips, who appears to work for a Russian media outlet, has released a video of some Russian civilians dead in a battered car in Donetsk, claiming that this is how the Ukrainians are treating ethnic Russians. I had to turn it off after twenty seconds the propaganda was nauseating.

I came across Graham in 2014 during the Crimean crisis, when he had been arrested and he was tweeting. I was also exchanging tweets with these supposedly nazi Ukrainians. The Ukrainians were eager to explain their POV and seemed very sincere to me. They didn't strike me as neo-nazi thugs of the sort depicted in the press. Believe me, they were tough. Ready to die for Ukraine. Living next door to Russia turned them into ultra-conservative nationalists.

 

[Vixen]

https://twitter.com/CarlSchreck/status/1497244146251153410?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497244146251153410%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_e6a3f986-966b-11ec-853c-6215436e2ddd%2F0

I wouldn't believe anything TASS says!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

....

Russia wants to be seen as a superpower on equal footing with NATO. They have shown that they are clearly not.

I was thinking something similar, Russia's invading troops look more like a rag-tag bunch with very little discipline and training.

It's unfortunate Ukraine has little defense capability, but Russia is showing how weak militarily they are.

The bad side of that coin, they have nukes and with a crazy leader like Putin, they might use them.

 

[Galaxie]

I wouldn't believe anything TASS says!

Obviously. It's just a ridiculous attempt at demonizing the enemy.

 

[Vixen]

I have followed this thread from the beginning and must say that the tankies are making a pretty lame showing of it.

Seeing the video of the Russian tank wilfully ploughing down a car and reversing back over it was one of the most traumatic scenes today. Thankfully the driver miraculously survived, even though his car was as flat as a pancake.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Ukraine Deputy Defence Minister says Russia has lost 2,800 troops dead and wounded, 80 tanks, 516 armored vehicles, 10 airplanes, and 7 helicopters.
A large proportion of these have been attacks on rear echelon formations by 'stay behind' units.
Film of a destroyed convoy released, it seems to be towed artillery.

There is no third party confirmation of the figures.

 

[Vixen]

A friend in Portsmouth says two Type 45 Destroyers slipped out today.
HMS Diamond this afternoon and another after dark, he couldn't see it's number.
Neither of them were showing on AIS.

Great to see the Brits arrive in Estonia today.

 

[Vixen]

Kwasi Kwarteng summoned BP chief Bernard Looney this afternoon to explain why it owns a 20% stake in Rosneft, which provides fuel to Russia army.

Has he also summoned the prime minister to explain why he's appointed the wife of Putin's former finance minister to his Downing Street advisory board, and the son of a Russian oligarch and former KGB agent to the House of Lords?

Don't be silly. Boris is his boss.

 

[Vixen]

<snip>
Wherever it is they are going will have been in the works for a while, they won't be going to the Black Sea or Baltic.

Psst. Has anyone told British Foreign Secretary and MP Elizabeth 'Liz' Truss which is which yet?


It's striking isn't it, that we have sea captains who don't know their port from their starboard, accountants who don't know their debits from their credits and secretaries of state for foreign affairs who don't know their north from their south. Or like the former FO Raaaa-aaaab (as James O'Brien of LBC calls him) believing the sea has a closing and opening time.

 

[Vixen]

Indeed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

Ah right. Never heard that before.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

..."https://twitter.com/CarlSchreck...

Seems like Russia might be projecting a bit there.

 

[Vixen]

Nor a U.S. president, for that matter.

That's not a statement of culpability, nor equivalence. Instead, it's a statement on the likelihood of either country extraditing a leader to the ICC.

Speaking of, does anybody with a better knowledge of history than I have know of any efforts to quantify the deterrent effect of previous warcrimes trials on the current commission of warcrimes?

It's not really a deterrent, it is more an attempt to bring war criminals to justice. Both Finland and Sweden have recently had war crime cases. Some guy from Africa (Taylor IIRC) and someone of a similar ilk in Sweden to do with atrocities against humanity committed in remote parts of the world.

 

[Vixen]

Strangely you are not the first person to say this about me!

I am not totally living in a fantasy world, I think the chances of Putin actually being punished is slim. But Russia cannot veto the ICJ bringing a case for war crimes against Putin, and who knows Putin's successor may find it convenient to extradite him?

I think if Putin were ever captured by the west, he would now face war crime charges.