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The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

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lobosrul5 said:
6,500 tanks? That number seems highly suspect, the US Army only operates about 4,000 M1 Abrams. We also have Strykers that in some configurations might be considered a light tank.

I'm guessing they are camouflaged and hidden away somewhere to guard against air strikes.
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Eastern Bloc countries traditionally keep tanks on the books that are long past the point of usefulness.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Wait are you saying if civilians in a country invaded by a foreign power (and completely unjustifiably so) lose the moral high ground if they pick up a weapon in retaliation?? If so thats... ******* ridiculous. If you mean thats what Putin will claim... yeah he totally will.
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I mean it's not a war crime to shoot at armed combatants in a shooting war, even if the combatants you're shooting at are holed up in a civilian structure like an apartment building or a hospital.

Once civilians pick up arms and start shooting, you're allowed to shoot back. Your commander in chief may still have to answer for launching a war of aggression, but you yourself won't be standing trial for returning fire from a hospital. (In fact the armed combatants in the hospital may end up standing trial if they try to claim civilian status to avoid taking return fire.)
 
Aridas said:
I'm not certain that all technicalities may be met to say that Russia's indiscriminately bombing, but hospitals, kindergartens, and homes are being hit anyways.
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The Russians said that they were using precision guided munitions and missiles but that's a lie. They are known to have used unguided rockets in their attacks, more than a few of which have struck civilian areas.
 
Ultimately the Ukrainians best hope is making the Russian offensive too costly in lives and equipment. Putin seems to believe the Ukrainian military is liable to lay down their arms and surrender at any moment, but if the Ukrainians can wear the Russians down enough the Russian military might turn on Putin.

From what i can tell most Ukrainians are not of any defeatist mood and seem united against Russia, by contrast support for the war in Russia has been muted. A large majority seem to have been of the opinion that the supposed "war scare" was just western propaganda and were shocked when it occurred. Putin basically had to drag his top underlings to a grilling interrogation that aired on TV where they effectively had to justify his invasion personally. This is pretty much all his idea and he won't allow any dissent or second guessing.
 
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theprestige said:
I mean it's not a war crime to shoot at armed combatants in a shooting war, even if the combatants you're shooting at are holed up in a civilian structure like an apartment building or a hospital.

Once civilians pick up arms and start shooting, you're allowed to shoot back. Your commander in chief may still have to answer for launching a war of aggression, but you yourself won't be standing trial for returning fire from a hospital. (In fact the armed combatants in the hospital may end up standing trial if they try to claim civilian status to avoid taking return fire.)
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I really doubt the Ukrainians will resort to tactics of using hospitals and schools as human shields against retaliation. For one, it just won't work, but urban combat is always messy. I suppose maybe they should hand out arm bands as a uniform or something? Its an illegal war, every single Russian soldier in Ukraine is committing a crime IMO. High ranking Russian officers should be tried and hanged if they ever set foot in a democratic country...just my opinion.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Oh I'm not saying an insurgency can't work, and it probably will.

But that happens *after* your country is overrun.
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Insurgency/militia resistance during the initial invasion adds friction to the invasion. If the invasion force is not operating very efficiently, and especially if troop morale is low, that extra friction can add up to a failure to actually overrun the country.

Also, forcing the invader to deal with an insurgency every inch of the way helps to ensure that even the overrun areas are not properly secured. This makes the follow-on insurgency much easier to sustain. Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq, are all excellent examples of how even a well-equipped occupier with high morale can be thwarted by a failure to properly occupy and secure a country against insurgency. Post-WW2 Germany and Japan stand as counter-examples.

The best time for an insurgency to make a difference, especially against a ruthless foe who has no compunctions about "properly securing" occupied territory, is to drag the initial overrun step out as long as possible, and add as much friction to the occupier's momentum as possible. Nobody in their right mind wants to put off insurgency until after Putin has completed the invasion phase and can turn his full attention to pacification.
 
lobosrul5 said:
I really doubt the Ukrainians will resort to tactics of using hospitals and schools as human shields against retaliation. For one, it just won't work, but urban combat is always messy. I suppose maybe they should hand out arm bands as a uniform or something? Its an illegal war, every single Russian soldier in Ukraine is committing a crime IMO. High ranking Russian officers should be tried and hanged if they ever set foot in a democratic country...just my opinion.
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It's more or less my opinion too. But I do think that absolutely yes Ukraine should be handing out arm bands, and establishing at least a nominal hierarchy between civilian militias and regular army. Otherwise, Putin has no reason not to treat every civilian he sees as a potential combatant. There's a reason that failure to distinguish your own civilians from your own combatants is considered a war crime.
 
What is scary is Putin is openly claiming that Eastern and Central Europe should be in the Russian sphere of influence...ie return to puppet status.
Several of these countries are NATO members.
IAnd I am convinced that PUtin is , well, more then a little deranged.
 
Galaxie said:
Totally different situation IMO. That was an insurgency, this hypothetical is more like the Nazis trying to use Volkssturm units to stop Allied advances.
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Allied force numbers were huge and swamped the country, after 6 years of fighting the German population had no will left to fight.

Russia barely has enough troops to hold down a portion of Ukraine.
 
Galaxie said:
Totally different situation IMO. That was an insurgency, this hypothetical is more like the Nazis trying to use Volkssturm units to stop Allied advances.
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Also more like the US government calling on gun nuts across the country to stand up against Volkssturm advances. (Why yes, I do have a very low opinion of Russian military readiness, why do you ask?)
 
dudalb said:
What is scary is Putin is openly claiming that Eastern and Central Europe should be in the Russian sphere of influence...ie return to puppet status.
Several of these countries are NATO members.
IAnd I am convinced that PUtin is , well, more then a little deranged.
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I have always though that Putin was a dangerous yet rational man.

But seeing him on tv lately, he does seem deranged, ranting about the Ukrainian authorities being drug addicted nazis.
 
Russian troops are in northern districts of the capital Kyiv, Ukraine says, and video shows armoured vehicles advancing
The UK says the "bulk" of Russian troops advancing on the city remain more than 50km away

Ukraine's interior ministry also says 18,000 guns have been given to volunteers
And Ukraine's President Zelensky releases a defiant video, saying he's not leaving
 
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