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Cont: The Biden Presidency Part II

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I don't think he thought Trump would get elected. I think he thought Hillary was inevitable, but he might be able to weaken her. And it's to his advantage to weaken any US president, whoever they are. But mostly, he probably just wanted to cause trouble. Which he did.

Putin actively interfered in two U.S. elections in Trump's favor. He clearly picked a side and desired a certain outcome. That desired outcome was Trump in the White House.
 
I agree there.
With Trump in power Putin's wet dream of NATO falling apart was happening, so an action like this would have countered that.

With Biden in power that had stopped.

Bwahahahahahaha!

No.

What exactly was the primary NATO tension when Trump was in office? Trump wanted Europe to spend more money on their own defense, and they didn't want to. Yeah, Russia really sided with Trump on that one. :rolleyes:

How about since? Well, we had the cluster **** of the Afghanistan withdrawl. Our NATO allies were pretty damned pissed about that debacle.
 
Putin actively interfered in two U.S. elections in Trump's favor. He clearly picked a side and desired a certain outcome. That desired outcome was Trump in the White House.

What for? So we could press Germany to spend more on defense? So that we could increase domestic oil production? So that we could sanction Nord Stream II?

You aren't actually making any sense.
 
What for? So we could press Germany to spend more on defense? So that we could increase domestic oil production? So that we could sanction Nord Stream II?

You aren't actually making any sense.

It doesn't surprise me that a simple statement of fact doesn't make sense to you.

As far as why Putin wanted Trump in the White House, you'd have to ask him for the specifics.

But the fact remains, Putin did want Trump in the White House as clearly demonstrated by his actions.

No amount of pretzel logic will change that.
 
We are hearing that lot from the Trumpers: "PUtin would not have invaded if Trump was President".Pure BS. Trump, if POTUS, would be cheering Putin on.

The CHUDS have not reached a consensus yet. Some are saying tough guy Trump never would have let this happen, others are cheering on Russia (including Trump himself).

It remains to be seen which becomes the party line.
 
Trump already was opposing Nord Stream II. Biden lifted those sanctions. Trump also kept oil prices down. They've gone way up under Biden.

Trump talked nice about Putin, but his actual actions were not supportive at all. Biden has been far more pro-Russian where it actually matters, regardless of what he says.


What specifically did Biden do to make oil prices rise?

I hear this a lot -this idea that Trump kept prices low and Biden made them go higher- but what exactly can any President actually do about the price of oil? As far as I can tell, oil prices are driven by cartels who decide how much to produce in order to maximize their profits.
 
Bwahahahahahaha!

No.

What exactly was the primary NATO tension when Trump was in office? Trump wanted Europe to spend more money on their own defense, and they didn't want to. Yeah, Russia really sided with Trump on that one. :rolleyes:

How about since? Well, we had the cluster **** of the Afghanistan withdrawl. Our NATO allies were pretty damned pissed about that debacle.

I'm sure that is the line fed by the GOP, for the rest of the world it was clear Trump intended to rip up any international treaty he could if it would give him temporary good headlines in the US.

Including setting up the horrible withdrawal from Afghanistan.
 
What specifically did Biden do to make oil prices rise?

I hear this a lot -this idea that Trump kept prices low and Biden made them go higher- but what exactly can any President actually do about the price of oil? As far as I can tell, oil prices are driven by cartels who decide how much to produce in order to maximize their profits.

And why did W make oil prices go so high?
 
What specifically did Biden do to make oil prices rise?

I hear this a lot -this idea that Trump kept prices low and Biden made them go higher- but what exactly can any President actually do about the price of oil? As far as I can tell, oil prices are driven by cartels who decide how much to produce in order to maximize their profits.

Biden does actually have some leverage over the Saudis and the UAE, who we are supplying tons of arms to for their war against Yemen.
 
If Putin viewed Trump as such a threat, why did he twice interfere in U.S. elections to try to get him elected?

Begging the question, which has already been extensively debated elsewhere.

Anyway, to answer your actual question about specifics:

Bomb Russian forward supply depots, artillery parks, and rallying points. Is well within US/NATO capability, doesn't require committing ground troops in Ukraine, and would make a real difference. It's hard to sustain an offensive when your supplies and reinforcements keep getting disrupted, and your fire support is consistently suppressed.
 
Begging the question, which has already been extensively debated elsewhere.

Anyway, to answer your actual question about specifics:

Bomb Russian forward supply depots, artillery parks, and rallying points. Is well within US/NATO capability, doesn't require committing ground troops in Ukraine, and would make a real difference. It's hard to sustain an offensive when your supplies and reinforcements keep getting disrupted, and your fire support is consistently suppressed.

It's hard to imagine that Russia would take this laying down without retaliating in some direct way. What's going to happen if Russia shoots down US aircraft or sends strikes against US missile sites and airfields in NATO countries that originated these?

It's hard to imagine any scenario in which strikes against Russia doesn't rapidly escalate to a shooting war with NATO.
 
It's hard to imagine that Russia would take this laying down without retaliating in some direct way. What's going to happen if Russia shoots down US aircraft
This is one of those rare situations where "can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs" is the reasonable approach. There has to be some willingness to accept at least a few casualties in order to achieve the result. There's a reason it's called 'war' and not 'garden party'.

But the US has absolutely the best penetration bombers in the history of the world. Their casualties would probably be pretty limited.

or sends strikes against US missile sites and airfields in NATO countries that originated these?
Those strikes would almost certainly get intercepted and shot down. Stop being so squeamish.

It's hard to imagine any scenario in which strikes against Russia doesn't rapidly escalate to a shooting war with NATO.
It's hard to imagine Putin would continue in his aggression if it actually got him into a shooting war with NATO. And I think an effective interdiction bombing campaign, that actually dulled the Russian's ability to sustain the offensive and achieve their military goals on the ground, would lead pretty quickly to a general cease fire and detente where diplomacy had a chance to make a difference.

The west's biggest mistake in all of this has been trying to pretend they could get the benefits of a diplomatic approach without actually bothering to underwrite it with a credible threat of the other thing. More "cargo cult activism". Going through the motions and expecting it to count as actually doing the work.
 
We are hearing that lot from the Trumpers: "PUtin would not have invaded if Trump was President".Pure BS. Trump, if POTUS, would be cheering Putin on.


So why didn't he? Putin invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014 to President Obama's angry talk of "red lines" and "consequences" while not actually doing anything.

Then Trump came into office and shipped weapons to the Ukrainian government, bombed Russian troops in Syria, and sold missile defense systems to Poland, all while urging NATO countries to spend more in their own defense. And not just militarily, Trump also hit Putin economically by fighting against the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and increasing America's energy independence.

Now President Biden is in office, and the Ukrainian invasion is back on the menu. It's obvious that after the disastrous withdraw in Afghanistan, Putin believes that the US is not going to be able to do anything to effectively stop him.

The whole "Trump is a Russian agent" falls apart just by simple logic. Or was Ronald Reagan a Soviet agent? Or maybe Joe McCarthy? Was President Obama an agent of the Republican party?

The Hillary campaign had much closer ties to Russian agents in just setting up the whole Trump-Russia hoax than Trump ever actually had to Russia.
 
So why didn't he? Putin invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014 to President Obama's angry talk of "red lines" and "consequences" while not actually doing anything.

Then Trump came into office and shipped weapons to the Ukrainian government, bombed Russian troops in Syria, and sold missile defense systems to Poland, all while urging NATO countries to spend more in their own defense. And not just militarily, Trump also hit Putin economically by fighting against the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and increasing America's energy independence.

Now President Biden is in office, and the Ukrainian invasion is back on the menu. It's obvious that after the disastrous withdraw in Afghanistan, Putin believes that the US is not going to be able to do anything to effectively stop him.

The whole "Trump is a Russian agent" falls apart just by simple logic. Or was Ronald Reagan a Soviet agent? Or maybe Joe McCarthy? Was President Obama an agent of the Republican party?

The Hillary campaign had much closer ties to Russian agents in just setting up the whole Trump-Russia hoax than Trump ever actually had to Russia.

Trump didn't have anything to do with sending money to Ukraine....that was appropriated by Congress....


Oh, wait, he did delay that by 7 months to try and use that as a bargaining chip.

Earlier than that, he delayed other sales and shipments.
 
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This is one of those rare situations where "can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs" is the reasonable approach. There has to be some willingness to accept at least a few casualties in order to achieve the result. There's a reason it's called 'war' and not 'garden party'.

But the US has absolutely the best penetration bombers in the history of the world. Their casualties would probably be pretty limited.


Those strikes would almost certainly get intercepted and shot down. Stop being so squeamish.

I think you misunderstand. It's squeamishness I'm worried about.

I agree that a few casualties would be acceptable. My concern is that others wouldn't feel the same, and this limited war would turn into something much larger because the public isn't willing to accept US casualties without a punitive escalation of the conflict. Before you know it we're in another idiotic "regime change" campaign in Russia.

Ideally a series of US targeted attacks would cool Russia's heels and get them back on their side of the fence and engaging in lawful diplomacy again. Somehow I find myself doubting the US having the discipline to stay within the limitations of that objective once we took casualties directly.
 
The CHUDS have not reached a consensus yet. Some are saying tough guy Trump never would have let this happen, others are cheering on Russia (including Trump himself).



It remains to be seen which becomes the party line.

Why can't they use both?

Totally contradictory statements without any concern for consistency seems to work just fine. Perhaps even better than accuracy and honesty.
 
It's not bad luck. This was planned during the Trump administration, I'm sure. There is a reason Trumpsters and Fox News are rooting for Putin.

Planned? I'm doubtful of that on the Trump side, albeit more because Trump and co seemed much more like they were actively working to please Putin throughout even if there was no overall plan. Still, withdrawing from the Open Skies Treaty, for example, was an action that just increased Russia's ability and likelihood to do this, and it was after Trump lost that the withdrawal happened.


We shouldn't have elected a doddering old fool who has lost much of what little mental capacity he once had. Too late now, though.

Don't kid yourself. Putin thinks Biden is weak. And he's right.

:rolleyes: Helsinki. Putin KNEW Trump is both weak and wants to suck up to him, regardless.

It's no accident that Putin waited til Trump was out of office to make this move.

It's quite possible, but not likely for any reasons that reflect well on Trump.

Trump already was opposing Nord Stream II. Biden lifted those sanctions. Trump also kept oil prices down. They've gone way up under Biden.

Trump talked nice about Putin, but his actual actions were not supportive at all. Biden has been far more pro-Russian where it actually matters, regardless of what he says.

Ahh, the joys of rose colored glasses.

What specifically did Biden do to make oil prices rise?

I hear this a lot -this idea that Trump kept prices low and Biden made them go higher- but what exactly can any President actually do about the price of oil? As far as I can tell, oil prices are driven by cartels who decide how much to produce in order to maximize their profits.

Biden's done quite well compared to Trump when it comes to taking measures to restore the economy and control Covid. The big drop in prices had lots to do with covid, after all. Going further, of course, as a general truth, Republicans advocate using drilling and using more oil, while Democrats advocate reducing dependence upon oil. The former is a short term fix that's continually getting less viable as the easy and cheap to obtain oil is continually being reduced (which drives prices up at a fundamental level), the latter is a long term fix. Going a further, though, when we look at Trump himself, Trump personally did lots of things that drove oil prices up and furthered Russia's foreign policy goals.

This is one of those rare situations where "can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs" is the reasonable approach. There has to be some willingness to accept at least a few casualties in order to achieve the result. There's a reason it's called 'war' and not 'garden party'.

But the US has absolutely the best penetration bombers in the history of the world. Their casualties would probably be pretty limited.


Those strikes would almost certainly get intercepted and shot down. Stop being so squeamish.


It's hard to imagine Putin would continue in his aggression if it actually got him into a shooting war with NATO. And I think an effective interdiction bombing campaign, that actually dulled the Russian's ability to sustain the offensive and achieve their military goals on the ground, would lead pretty quickly to a general cease fire and detente where diplomacy had a chance to make a difference.

The west's biggest mistake in all of this has been trying to pretend they could get the benefits of a diplomatic approach without actually bothering to underwrite it with a credible threat of the other thing. More "cargo cult activism". Going through the motions and expecting it to count as actually doing the work.

On these things, I find myself largely in agreement with you. Going a little further, I also don't think that Russia has as much ability to actually fight as they project on an economic, equipment, or skill level. If there was a serious commitment to stop them, I think that, at very best, they would could end up with a limited Pyrrhic victory only because of being closer at hand.
 
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