The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[shemp]

NATO forces are also surrounding Kaliningrad.

We've got them surrounded! They better come out with their hands up!

 

[BobTheCoward]

In the Russian parallel universe Ukraine is ruled by a Nazi-fascist military junta that hates Russians (it has committed genocide against them for over 8 years), it is also under control of NATO...

While they have a conspicuous hiatus while these events are occurring, i'm sure it won't be too long until some of the missionaries of this insane world return to propagate their faith.

Can that be right or wrong? They are partially true to some degree (some extremely minor degree). I would say those are mischaractization....but I don't know what to do about mischaractization.

 

[Oystein]

Natural Gas is also used for power. Yes, there are other dependencies, but lowering a dependency is still lowering it.

But electricity from natural gas and from nuclear are not at all interchangeable. Nuclear plants provide basic power, gas plant manage the minute-to-minute ups and downs of demand. There is almost zero overlap between the two.

 

[Vixen]

But what exactly are we supposed to do? Declare war on a country with the nuclear capability to lay waste to the planet?

It was reported yesterday that Finnish intelligence services believe a few Finnish citizens have recently made their way to Ukraine. It wasn't spelt out explicitly but they seemed to be hinting they had gone there to fight.


When the USSR invaded Finland 1939, there were a lot of volunteers from fall over Europe offering to help fight against the Soviets. The reality is, they were not allowed to fight on the front line.

What can anybody do, really? Ukraine will probably find that it si on its own, just like Finland was, ultimately, with countries like Sweden declaring neutrality.

I can't see Germany getting involved (other than in 'sanctions' and 'negotiations').


There was a period when Russian citizens were barred from buying land in Finland. After the cold war, there were attempts by Russians to buy up warehouse land and what have you. It has been a lot more lax recently, with Russians being by far the biggest ethnic minority in Finland, albeit not an awful lot. The presence of a significant Russian population would be more of a pretext for Putin in former the Soviet states, which is an irony, as it was the USSR that cynically flooded these countries with ethnic Russians in the first place.

 

[BobTheCoward]

But electricity from natural gas and from nuclear are not at all interchangeable. Nuclear plants provide basic power, gas plant manage the minute-to-minute ups and downs of demand. There is almost zero overlap between the two.

Nuclear plants used to provide basic power. Now that Germany phased almost all of those out, what provides that? Coal?

ETA: did renewables replace that role?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Ukrainians can enter Schengen without a visa, so they will have no trouble getting into EU.

Entry isn't refugee status. People fleeing Ukraine from Russian invasion aren't on vacation. Many will need permanent resettlement and a path to citizenship.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Nigel Farage thinks it's the fault of the EU
He tweeted today

@Nigel_Farage
·
1h
Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

These are dark days for Europe.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Motion to move this into a more appropriate subforum? General Politics is a bit of an understatement for Russian invasions, and the very real threat of WW3 makes Non-USA a tad off the mark.

Is there a real threat of WWIII?

I'm not seeing any real indication that NATO forces are going to enter Ukraine to stop Russian invasion, and there's little indication that Russian forces are going to invade a NATO country. So long as this invasion remains inside Ukrainian borders, I don't see anyone willing to expand the conflict.

This is an utter calamity for Ukraine and certainly a further aggravation of diplomatic tensions between Russia and the EU/US, but I really don't see how this is going to spiral into a wider world war conflict.

I predict this will follow a grander scale version of the previous recent Russian invasions and annexations.

 

[Vixen]

30% of Texans speak Spanish in their homes. No doubt there are swaths of Texas where it is the majority language.
No doubt the US-Americans have been committing atrocity and all-out genocide against the good Mexicans of Texas for years and years, so an invasion a peace-keeping mission to demilitarize and denazify Southern Texas is in order. I mean, who is against denazification, eh?

Of course once the Mexicans in Spanish-speaking majority communities are liberated, we'll have to deal with the most difficult situation of the minority Mexicans in the rest of Texas, which will, no doubt, face increasing suppression by the Texas nazis. So let's take out the air forces in Oklahoma, California, Colorado etc and liberate all of Texas. Oh, and look - Arizona, Southern Cali... All in need of urgent denazification!


---

Sounds crazy, Michel? Yeah... I know the feeling.

This 'denazification' issue. People living in western democracies adopt 'radical' ideologies because (a) they are free to do so and (b) because it is trendy. In addition, (c) because they are young and idealist (although one meets some aging old Stalinist now and again flogging their Morning Star Next Step outside Student Union buildings. On the other polar are the angry white working class raging against whatever the aforementioned trendies are advocating.

But. They none of these have ever been in situation, such as Ukraine, constantly threatened by Russia. It is all very well calling the Ukrainian resistance Azoz nazi's but, hey, necessity is the mother of invention, at least there is someone fighting for Ukraine. I am not saying it is right. I am just saying it is understandable.

The Revolutionary Communists and the Tommy Robinson thugs who enjoy a 'ruck' with the police are stuffed up over-privileged nannied know-nothings, who pontificate about either 'loving the Russians and all we need is a big group hug' or alternatively 'Putin is right' UKIP bovver boys, who would run a mile in the opposite direction if confronted by a real soldier, grenade or tank.

I am not referring to anybody here. I fully respect people's rights to be communists or UKippers or whatever. It is the armchair busybodies rattling on about how we need to appease the Russians that irritates.

Not everybody's motives are pure. Least of all Putin and his Gang.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Nigel Farage thinks it's the fault of the EU
He tweeted today

@Nigel_Farage
·
1h
Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

These are dark days for Europe.

I don't get nationalism. Farage seems to care about nationalism, and seems to defend Russian Nationalism? But why does this view that nationalism is good means taking a dump all over Ukraine's nationalism? I know why they are doing, "nationalism for me but not for thee".....

but is there someone who has tried to make a coherent nationalist argument?

 

[Thermal]

Is there a real threat of WWIII?

I'm not seeing any real indication that NATO forces are going to enter Ukraine to stop Russian invasion, and there's little indication that Russian forces are going to invade a NATO country.

This is an utter calamity for Ukraine and certainly a further aggravation of diplomatic tensions between Russia and the EU/US, but I really don't see how this is going to spiral into a wider world war conflict.

I predict this will follow a grander scale version of the previous recent Russian invasions and annexations.

Not imminent, but certainly on the table. Anytime a hostile nuclear power flexes against US/NATO interests, a sub-optimal outcome is threatened. Also, the Franz Ferdinand effect.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Not imminent, but certainly on the table. Anytime a hostile nuclear power flexes against US/NATO interests, a sub-optimal outcome is threatened. Also, the Franz Ferdinand effect.

Well, if WWIII breaks out you better be fast to say "I told you so", lest we all get vaporized in nuclear hellfire first.

 

[seayakin]

I suspect as others have said is that Putin will install a puppet leader to make sure he has a compliant leader. I don't see him risking an attack on any NATO country. My guess he will continue try to use misinformation to try to encourage opposition to NATO (like Trump supporters) in order to break up NATO. I think the real question might be, how long can an Ukraine insurgency last?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

This 'denazification' issue. People living in western democracies adopt 'radical' ideologies because (a) they are free to do so and (b) because it is trendy. In addition, (c) because they are young and idealist (although one meets some aging old Stalinist now and again flogging their Morning Star Next Step outside Student Union buildings. On the other polar are the angry white working class raging against whatever the aforementioned trendies are advocating.

But. They none of these have ever been in situation, such as Ukraine, constantly threatened by Russia. It is all very well calling the Ukrainian resistance Azoz nazi's but, hey, necessity is the mother of invention, at least there is someone fighting for Ukraine. I am not saying it is right. I am just saying it is understandable.

The Revolutionary Communists and the Tommy Robinson thugs who enjoy a 'ruck' with the police are stuffed up over-privileged nannied know-nothings, who pontificate about either 'loving the Russians and all we need is a big group hug' or alternatively 'Putin is right' UKIP bovver boys, who would run a mile in the opposite direction if confronted by a real soldier, grenade or tank.

I am not referring to anybody here. I fully respect people's rights to be communists or UKippers or whatever. It is the armchair busybodies rattling on about how we need to appease the Russians that irritates.

Not everybody's motives are pure. Least of all Putin and his Gang.

Putin's "de-nazification" claim is so paper thin I'm inclined to think he's just trolling at this point.

It's a naked war of aggression. I suppose you have to say something if you're Putin, but I really don't see any reason to spend any effort considering such plainly absurd justifications.

 

[Ziggurat]

But electricity from natural gas and from nuclear are not at all interchangeable. Nuclear plants provide basic power, gas plant manage the minute-to-minute ups and downs of demand. There is almost zero overlap between the two.

Well, no. Natural gas has the ability to handle fluctuating loads, but that doesn't mean that operators only use it for fluctuating loads. It can and does get used for baseline loads as well. And since Germany is closing reactors, it's going to need something to replace that baseline capacity. Solar and wind won't do it, they aren't dependable. So what could take its place? The only real options are coal or natural gas. And coal is much dirtier than natural gas.

So there is quite a bit of overlap here.

 

[Ryokan]

Nuclear plants used to provide basic power. Now that Germany phased almost all of those out, what provides that? Coal?

ETA: did renewables replace that role?

Russian gas and a little bit of wind.

 

[Ziggurat]

Putin's "de-nazification" claim is so paper thin I'm inclined to think he's just trolling at this point.

Oh, I suspect a lot of Russians are eating it up. "Nazi" probably doesn't have the same connotation for them as it does for us. I don't think they really care what the Nazis did to the Jews, the more relevant fact is that the Nazis invaded Russia. So basically anyone to the west of Russia who is anti-Russian is close enough to a Nazi for Putin's domestic purposes.

 

[Vixen]

NATO forces are also surrounding Kaliningrad.

Driving the Russians out of Kaliningrad would be really effective IMV. The Russians only got it because everybody felt sorry for them after WWII, and as victors with the Allied Forces, it got to call the shots. As it is, this remote enclave/vassal state is nothing but a military base and a complete ******** of concrete and rusty steel. However, it provides a strategic military corridor by land and sea across Poland, where Russian troops can penetrate with impunity t reach Ukraine via Belarus and Lithuania at the border.

Taking away Kaliningrad would punish them.

 

[dudalb]

It's weird that the press isn't calling out Putin for his thinly veiled threat of nuclear retaliation against anyone interfering with this invasion.

On CNN,BBC and CNBC his little nuclear threat was called out repeatedly.

 

[dudalb]

I suspect as others have said is that Putin will install a puppet leader to make sure he has a compliant leader. I don't see him risking an attack on any NATO country. My guess he will continue try to use misinformation to try to encourage opposition to NATO (like Trump supporters) in order to break up NATO. I think the real question might be, how long can an Ukraine insurgency last?

A long time..think Afghanistan.