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Cont: Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part IV

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Not surprisingly, you miss the point entirely. The problem with Petra's approach is not dependent on the existence of psyops, nor, for that matter, even on whether her conclusions are right or wrong. The problem is that it's a mistake to start with a conclusion and then fit your evidence to it.
I realize that is a hard concept for some to come to grips with, especially if it impugns their own habits, but if nothing else it's a bar to general acceptance and thus not a very productive way to argue.


Even worse, those who use this approach (e.g. Bubba, Petra, Tom Palven, Childlike Empress et al) don't just shoehorn evidence and facts to fit their preconceived conclusions, they actively ignore and/or hand-wave contrary evidence that they can't fit, instead of modifying their conclusion.
 
That's an incredibly narcissistic conclusion.

Many of us here know people who have been made extremely ill, or extremely dead by COVID-19.

My wife's friend's brother was hospitalized with COVID-19 early on. He was put on a ventilator and the family told to prepare for his death. Incredibly, he survived, but just barely. It's been nearly two years and he's still in bad shape. He used to jog and play basketball. Now getting up the stairs leaves him out of breath.

My wife has a few colleagues at work who have died.

My friend's wife died of COVID-19.

It just seems incredibly self-centered of you to assume that only your personal experience matters, and incredibly arrogant to assume that you are smarter than millions of scientists, doctors and nurses all over the globe.

But you're strawmanning me. I'm not judging by my experience alone, it is just a single element.

The nature of reality is that every single piece of evidence will support and favour the correct hypothesis over any other, agreed? There cannot be a single piece of evidence, not a single piece, that ultimately favours the incorrect hypothesis. So what we need to ensure is that every single piece available supports and favours our chosen hypothesis.

My personal experience supports the hypothesis that the alleged pandemic is a fraud while seemingly yours doesn't. However, could your experience fit the fraud hypothesis too when analysed carefully? Could it be that while the people you are aware of died or were badly affected by the alleged covid they actually had a bad case of the flu or pneumonia rather than the alleged covid? Deaths from the flu and pneumonia are not uncommon. Kary Mullis, who seemed pretty healthy and was only 74, died of pneumonia in 2019 and as I say my friend, who got a very bad case of the flu in 2019, had a colleague whose mother died of the flu in 2019 ... and she was on a ventilator and was only in her 60s.

If my personal experience was that people were getting sick and dying in a way that seemed different from before, even if I felt the science didn't stand up, that would make me sit up and think, wouldn't it? It would seem to suggest that there is some special illness out there but it doesn't, my own personal experience doesn't contradict my hypothesis and I'd say that your personal experience doesn't necessarily favour the reality of covid because it can be explained another way - that is, that the PCR test is not fit for purpose and people testing positive for covid and are sick are sick with something else. Moreover, you're talking about only a few people. Where's the pandemic?

I will say this though. I do hear of a lot of loss of sense of smell and taste that seems anomalous and these symptoms are being put forward as being a feature of covid. My argument is that the science put forward for the virus and covid is fraudulent and these symptoms can simply be explained by something else even if I don't know what that something else is. It could be that every year or two whatever pathogens tend to be infecting people tend to cause some symptoms more than others and around this time it's loss of taste and smell ... or perhaps it's other reasons but simply because there seem to be a higher incidence of particular symptoms doesn't necessarily favour "covid", we need to account for all the evidence.

Just to add: we were told that there was no cure for covid. If people tested positive for covid but were sick with something else and weren't tested for other possible illness then perhaps those people died unnecessarily because they didn't receive the correct treatment. If they had pneumonia, for example, they might have survived if they'd been given antibiotics. One would hope that this didn't happen but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it did.
 
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Even worse, those who use this approach (e.g. Bubba, Petra, Tom Palven, Childlike Empress et al) don't just shoehorn evidence and facts to fit their preconceived conclusions, they actively ignore and/or hand-wave contrary evidence that they can't fit, instead of modifying their conclusion.

I emphatically deny this claim. I do not hand-wave evidence that may seem to challenge my hypothesis but I will, on occasion, allow that I cannot explain it. It is a fallacy to think that all seemingly relevant information must be explained. What you need for your case is sufficient evidence that favours your hypothesis over any competing hypothesis without evidence that contradicts it.

You need SUFFICIENT evidence, that is all, without EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. I can't explain how they got to the moon, haven't a clue, but I can see that every single piece of visual and audio evidence presented is 100% self-consistent and otherwise consistent with the unique lunar conditions and I can see that all moonhoax arguments are easily debunked by those more knowledgeable than both me and the moonhoaxers.

It's not rocket science (excuse the pun). You just need sufficient evidence (with nothing contradicting). So I see that there are seemingly prominent symptoms of loss of taste and smell which I have no explanation for ... but I don't "wave it away". I say yes, it's a seeming anomaly but there's nothing that says that there isn't an explanation that I simply don't know. This feature does not contradict my hypothesis and I see great support for my hypothesis elsewhere.
 
The nature of reality is that every single piece of evidence will support and favour the correct hypothesis over any other, agreed? There cannot be a single piece of evidence, not a single piece, that ultimately favours the incorrect hypothesis. So what we need to ensure is that every single piece available supports and favours our chosen hypothesis.

In practice this is false. Evidence is often if not always incomplete and imperfect. In any case, your beliefs regarding the pandemic are contradicted by the evidence we have. The fraud is from the science deniers whose bad advice you follow.
 
You need SUFFICIENT evidence, that is all, without EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

This is a house of cards. You think you're justified to dismiss all the science that's been done because of a false claim of inconsistency. Nonsense.
 
Why should saying two species of snakes are reservoirs of the virus have anything to do with a psyop? You might as well pin words to the wall and throw darts at them. What's the square root of a zebra?

Even it if weren't true, what does that mean other than that it's a mistake. Which it probably isn't, though, as many animals have been quite abundantly shown to be just that. There is plenty of evidence, for example, that white tail deer are a reservoir of the virus, although that might require a believe in the existence of deer.

Of course you can't believe that if you start from the premise that the virus is imaginary. Of course there can be no reservoir of it if there is no it. Of course if you start from the premise that everything about the virus is a lie, all the evidence must be a lie too. Once again, it's backward reasoning, with the conclusion determining the evidence.

Features of a psyop are media items that make no sense. Finding the virus in two species of snake right at the outset doesn't make sense so that's the connection with psyop. We do not expect scientists to be looking at snakes for a virus at the outset especially and we have to ask why THESE two species? Did they look in other species and not find them there? Also:

--- People falling flat on their faces
--- People laid out on the ground and on hospital floors
--- Stories about hospitals being erected in 48 hours
--- Alleged patients who have a history in acting and have no credibility
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...uinely-thought-going-die-Covid-19-battle.html

What you will notice in the comments on the Daily Mail article is that the commenters aren't psyop analysts like me, however, they do not believe Tara Jane Langston's story regardless ... because it is contrary to what you'd expect of someone in an ICU.

It doesn't matter what premise I start with as long as I scrupulously keep my mind open to all the evidence and carefully assign it to the hypothesis it fits best. I mean, what premise did you start with? You didn't start with a premise - is that what you're telling me?
 
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This is a house of cards. You think you're justified to dismiss all the science that's been done because of a false claim of inconsistency. Nonsense.

It's a question of getting down to the nitty-gritty.

Some major points

1. Claim by five science teams: they have isolated virus.
On questioning, they admit that their electron micrographs do not show purified virus particles. This article only shows the responses of four science teams but I know the authors later wrote to the Australian science team who published in the Medical Journal of Australia (prompted by my question to the authors about that paper) and got the same answer from them.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless

2. There are no scientific papers showing there is a causal relationship between any pathogen and covid which doesn't have a distinctive set of symptoms.

3. There is clear evidence that mortality is being misassigned to covid.

4. The mortality assigned to covid is preponderantly in old people.

5. The PCR test is not a diagnostic test and people aren't "diagnosed" with covid, they are considered a "case" purely on the basis of a positive result.

I'm really not sure what more evidence you need.
 
You still haven't shared this video of people falling flat on their faces.


Search my posts for the past couple months, it’s in there somewhere. Basically someone posted videos of people who either had fallen down or were falling down in China. A couple of them were in car accidents and a few people had been assaulted if I recall correctly.

It had literally nothing to do with Covid but at that time in the pandemic (January 2020), everyone was freaking out about everything especially in China.
 
... My personal experience supports the hypothesis that the alleged pandemic is a fraud while seemingly yours doesn't. ...

Personal opinion, when facts, evidence, and knowledge are needed guided by critical thinking skills which seem to be missing, thus forming a rational conclusion is not possible.
It appears your approach is cherry picking BS, and make up an opinion. You may be missing critical facts and evidence, like the off topic 9/11 NORAD rant.

Your experience appears to be extremely shallow.

The conspiracy theory of covid fraud... you must not know very many people who have suffered from Covid. What did/does your doctor say about your fantasy?
 
Search my posts for the past couple months, it’s in there somewhere. Basically someone posted videos of people who either had fallen down or were falling down in China. A couple of them were in car accidents and a few people had been assaulted if I recall correctly.

It had literally nothing to do with Covid but at that time in the pandemic (January 2020), everyone was freaking out about everything especially in China.

Thank you, but with all due respect, we are asking the posters who have claimed this video/ these videos are evidence for their arguments to provide their evidence.

They shouldn't rely on a third party to provide their evidence, and we shouldn't be expected to search through a 'couple of months' of your posts to find the evidence they couldn't be bothered to post or to link to.
 
In practice this is false. Evidence is often if not always incomplete and imperfect. In any case, your beliefs regarding the pandemic are contradicted by the evidence we have. The fraud is from the science deniers whose bad advice you follow.

I think what's helpful to understand is the differences between the following:
--- "Doing" science
--- Understanding and criticising science that's put forward
--- Understanding the criticism of the science

--- "Doing" science involves a whole lot of stuff that the non-scientist may well have no clue about it.

--- Understanding and criticising the "done" science may involve quite a lot of knowledge although not necessarily of the experiential kind. It's possible to acquire the knowledge without doing the experiments and so on yourself.

--- Understanding the criticism of science involves far less knowledge. When things that are wrong are pointed out to the lay person they can see if they stand up, especially by the calibre of the response to the criticism ... or lack of one.

If I look at a scientific paper where it is claimed a virus has been isolated I wouldn't have the foggiest, however, when I'm guided through a criticism I can see its validity and I can also see by the lack of response to the criticism that the criticism is valid.

I mentioned in an earlier comment that Kary Mullis attempted a debunking of AGW but just because he's a brilliant scientist doesn't mean he's always right and it's obvious IMMEDIATELY that he didn't do due diligence with his criticism. He just grabbed a single paper with zero consideration of the authors' intentions and made an inference from difference in night-time and daytime temperature increases that the Urban Heat Island effect was responsible when it can be explained by another phenomenon.

You need to let go of the idea that we, as lay people, must "trust" scientists. Even when I had no idea about the fraudulence of science and was very much inclined to believe in AGW from the moment I heard of it I still wanted to look at the opposing argument for my own satisfaction. That is what we should all do - look carefully at the opposing argument and follow the debunking trail.
 
Hiya Petra,

You seem to have missed the questions I asked you here. I don't mean to nag, but I can't give an honest answer to your question until you respond to the points I raised.

TTFN
 
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Personal opinion, when facts, evidence, and knowledge are needed guided by critical thinking skills which seem to be missing, thus forming a rational conclusion is not possible.
It appears your approach is cherry picking BS, and make up an opinion. You may be missing critical facts and evidence, like the off topic 9/11 NORAD rant.

Your experience appears to be extremely shallow.

The conspiracy theory of covid fraud... you must not know very many people who have suffered from Covid. What did/does your doctor say about your fantasy?

Oh dear, I'm afraid it's rather you in possession of the shallow, knee-jerk "thinking."

I wasn't putting forward my "personal opinion" but rather my "personal EXPERIENCE" and I was putting it forward as an element in my case, not "proof", simply an element.

It seems to me that people on this thread don't believe that personal experience plays any role in determining whether or not what we hear from media and government 24/7 is true.

Is that what I'm to understand?

That "personal experience" should play absolutely no role in determining whether a pandemic is occurring or not. "Personal experience" and "pandemic" have ZERO connection, it's just what's put forward by media, government and scientific papers that we need to pay attention to? Is that it? Is that what you guys advise? "Personal experience" completely excluded from argument and it's just:
--- Media (who always tell the truth)
--- Government (who always tell the truth)
--- Scientific papers (which are always accurate)

But then even the media tell us stuff that contradicts the narrative. There is actually a reasonable amount of internal contradiction which is only to be expected.
Media telling us that median age of covid mortality in Australia: 86 for women, 81 for men.
https://www.facebook.com/TurningPointAustralia/videos/3863750390515887/
 
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Hiya Petra,

You seem to have missed the questions I asked you here. I don't mean to nag, but I can't give an honest answer to your question until you respond to the points I raised.

TTFN

I started with the presumption that it was a psyop when they...
Who is 'they'?

"They" are the very rich and powerful from all around the globe and include the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Clintons, Bushes, Royal Families, Gates, Epstein, and many names we've never heard of. According to former high-finance operative, Ronald Bernard, they comprise about 8,000 people. Who I really wonder about is Elon Musk. He's rich and powerful but I somehow don't think he's part of this crowd but I have no idea. "They" are people who go back in history. The techniques for controlling us are with their ancestors or if they're "nouveau" they will get told.

...showed us people falling flat on their faces...
Link, please.

https://twitter.com/rachadchahine/status/1220785179146563585


...and told us that two species of snakes were "reservoirs" of the virus...
Link, please.

Just to say: I first saw the snake thing in Wikipedia (always my first point of call because it always gives us the nonsense to indicate psyop), however, the Wikipedia page was erased never to be seen again - not in History, completely wiped)
https://www.unco.edu/news/articles/snake-expert-lack-of-evidence-coronavirus-snakes.aspx

...Do you think I was hasty?
Until I see this evidence I can't take a reasoned position, so pony up.

Done.
 
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Person laid out on the floor and another falling flat on their face.
https://twitter.com/rachadchahine/status/1220785179146563585

Man stretched out in the video shown within the article, Coronavirus: Man found dead in street in face mask in shocking image
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...hina-wuhan-picture-man-outbreak-a9310846.html

Thank you for the link. So 'they' is @rachadchahine on twitter? Who is this person, and why should we trust them? (I am, by the way, assuming that your second link was posted in error, as it doesn't show anyone 'falling flat on their faces', and has no snakes in it).

Do you have a link for the snake repository thing?
 
The nature of reality is that every single piece of evidence will support and favour the correct hypothesis over any other, agreed? There cannot be a single piece of evidence, not a single piece, that ultimately favours the incorrect hypothesis.
This is not true. The entire rest of your post demonstrates why.
 
Just to say: I first saw the snake thing in Wikipedia (always my first point of call because it always gives us the nonsense to indicate psyop), however, the Wikipedia page was erased never to be seen again - not in History, completely wiped)
Yes, that’s what happens when misinformation is posted to Wikipedia.
 
In practice this is false. Evidence is often if not always incomplete and imperfect. ...

Actually, you're right I need to rephrase. We need to make sure that all the available evidence at the very least doesn't contradict our chosen hypothesis and, overall, favours it over any competing hypothesis.
 
I started with the presumption that it was a psyop when they...
Who is 'they'?

"They" are the very rich and powerful from all around the globe and include the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Clintons, Bushes, Royal Families, Gates, Epstein, and many names we've never heard of. According to former high-finance operative, Ronald Bernard, they comprise about 8,000 people. Who I really wonder about is Elon Musk. He's rich and powerful but I somehow don't think he's part of this crowd but I have no idea. "They" are people who go back in history. The techniques for controlling us are with their ancestors or if they're "nouveau" they will get told.

...showed us people falling flat on their faces...
Link, please.

https://twitter.com/rachadchahine/status/1220785179146563585


...and told us that two species of snakes were "reservoirs" of the virus...
Link, please.

Just to say: I first saw the snake thing in Wikipedia (always my first point of call because it always gives us the nonsense to indicate psyop), however, the Wikipedia page was erased never to be seen again - not in History, completely wiped)
https://www.unco.edu/news/articles/snake-expert-lack-of-evidence-coronavirus-snakes.aspx

...Do you think I was hasty?
Until I see this evidence I can't take a reasoned position, so pony up.

Done.

Oops! We cross-posted again!

Any way, thank you for your reply. If you don't mind, I'll be responding to your submissions out of order (for reasons that I hope will become clear).

...showed us people falling flat on their faces...
Link, please.

https://twitter.com/rachadchahine/status/1220785179146563585

Who is @rachadchahine? Why should we believe that this video shows what they say it does?



...and told us that two species of snakes were "reservoirs" of the virus...
Link, please.

Just to say: I first saw the snake thing in Wikipedia (always my first point of call because it always gives us the nonsense to indicate psyop), however, the Wikipedia page was erased never to be seen again - not in History, completely wiped)
https://www.unco.edu/news/articles/snake-expert-lack-of-evidence-coronavirus-snakes.aspx

Did you read that article? I only ask because it is a debunking of the very snakes-as-covid-repositories idea that you seem to believe.



"They" are the very rich and powerful from all around the globe and include the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Clintons, Bushes, Royal Families, Gates, Epstein, and many names we've never heard of. According to former high-finance operative, Ronald Bernard, they comprise about 8,000 people. Who I really wonder about is Elon Musk. He's rich and powerful but I somehow don't think he's part of this crowd but I have no idea. "They" are people who go back in history. The techniques for controlling us are with their ancestors or if they're "nouveau" they will get told.

Oh, how disappointing. Bog-standard conspiracy crap.



...Do you think I was hasty?
Until I see this evidence I can't take a reasoned position, so pony up.

Done.

Indeed you are.


ETA: (In case you were wondering) Yes, I do think you were hasty. Amongst other things.
 
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