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Cont: Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part IV

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My experience is that people who dismiss science on the basis of a silly personal anecdote are not worth taking seriously.

My experience is that strawmanning / facile/completely incorrect interpretation are rife.

I repeat:
One's own personal experience is not necessarily the best way to judge certain things and sometimes should be completely discounted but the nature of a pandemic, I'd say, is that you experience it at personal level to some degree - just one of the various factors which make me believe that covid is a psyop.
 
...Eugenicist Bill Gates...

Maybe we could start calling you "Russian agent Bubba"? I mean, we have just as much evidence for that as you have for Gates being a eugenisist.

We certainly can't call you "cartographer Bubba".
 
My experience is that strawmanning / facile/completely incorrect interpretation are rife.

I repeat:
One's own personal experience is not necessarily the best way to judge certain things and sometimes should be completely discounted but the nature of a pandemic, I'd say, is that you experience it at personal level to some degree - just one of the various factors which make me believe that covid is a psyop.

That's an incredibly narcissistic conclusion.

Many of us here know people who have been made extremely ill, or extremely dead by COVID-19.

My wife's friend's brother was hospitalized with COVID-19 early on. He was put on a ventilator and the family told to prepare for his death. Incredibly, he survived, but just barely. It's been nearly two years and he's still in bad shape. He used to jog and play basketball. Now getting up the stairs leaves him out of breath.

My wife has a few colleagues at work who have died.

My friend's wife died of COVID-19.

It just seems incredibly self-centered of you to assume that only your personal experience matters, and incredibly arrogant to assume that you are smarter than millions of scientists, doctors and nurses all over the globe.
 
Upthread? Do you have a link?

Yes.
Next time, it would be preferable if you would actually read the replies you get, rather than ignoring them and then pretending no-one has answered you.

Here's a detailed breakdown of your comment.



44 similar cases of a pneumonia that defies classification is the very definition of a cluster.



"Unknown origin" makes sense if the Chinese had tested these patients for all common and then uncommon causes for pneumonia, and they all came back negative. At that point they concluded they were dealing with something new.



It is not lost. The novel virus is now known as Sars-Cov-2, and it causes a disease called COVID-19. One of the complications arising from advanced COVID-19 is pneumonia.



See WHO Director-General's opening remarks at the media briefing on COVID-19 - 11 March 2020.

The sentence I highlighted is objectively and indisputably untrue. I myself have replied to that at least twice (see quotations below), and others have replied as well. Petra doesn't like those replies, but to say no one has even replied is either (1) a lie or (2) symptomatic of losing all touch with reality.

Here is the relevant portion of my first reply to that:


Here is the relevant portion of my second reply:



Petra is still asking the same thing while claiming no one has even replied to it. Here, therefore, is my third reply:
Not to mention almost 400 million subsequent cases and more than 5 million deaths.

If you had paid attention and responded honestly, I would not have had to repeat that.

I didn't think it was necessary to point out that "the association between pneumonia and the novel virus" has never been lost.

I note also that Petra's obviously false claim that no one has replied to Petra's statement reflects poorly on Petra's credibility.​



I looked at the rationale for his belief before calling him a crackpot. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever calling Mullis a crackpot, although I can't deny that Mullis exhibited many traits generally associated with crackpots:

In 2010, Mullis said

That was an odd thing for Mullis to say, because "In the hierarchy of biological classification, genus comes above species and below family." Yet retroviridae is a family. That means Mullis was saying he had come to believe AIDS is caused by retroviruses belonging to some genus of the retroviridae family.

Mullis was also saying he didn't think AIDS was caused by just one species of some genus of retroviruses, but that was an odd thing to say because the word "species" doesn't really apply to retroviruses, which do not reproduce sexually.

Summing up: Kary Mullis eventually came to believe AIDS was caused by retroviruses, though not all genuses of retrovirus cause AIDS. That is of course the mainstream opinion. Mullis apparently didn't know enough biology to state that mainstream opinion clearly, but we can forgive that: He was 65 years old at the time, speaking off the cuff, and his academic training and professional experience were in chemistry, not biology.


Having been on both sides of the peer review process, I can report that some heretical work does get submitted to mainstream publications and funding agencies, but it seldom survives peer review.

Having published a couple of articles that overturned conventional wisdom on some esoteric subject that is not otherwise relevant to this thread, I can also report that while it's harder to publish surprising results that go against the mainstream, it is also possible (with persistence) to publish such results in mainstream, peer-reviewed journals.


Is that the same principle that leads us to doubt the credibility of someone who lies about whether anyone has replied to a post? And also ignores and/or misrepresents Kary Mullis's (admittedly rather confused) opinions on the cause of AIDS?


Ahem.


Petra has been wrong about so many things, ranging from the trivial (whether anyone has replied) to the semi-relevant (Kary Mullis's eventual agreement with the mainstream opinion that AIDS is caused by retroviruses) and relevant (whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus exists at all), that what Petra may be "clear on" is not a reliable guide to anything. From the evidence Petra has supplied within this thread, it would be fair to say Petra's opinions on matters of science are worthless.


It would be nice to see some evidence of that.


No credible source has disputed the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has been sequenced.

Petra continues to rely upon incredible sources:

That's Sam Bailey, who denies that any virus has ever caused any disease.

Bailey's opinion is at odds with Kary Mullis's opinion that AIDS is caused by retroviruses, and with the opinions of all credible scientists, including scientists who have won Nobel prizes for showing that specific viruses cause specific diseases.

I'm sorry to disappoint Petra by refusing to waste my time rebutting an obvious crackpot's obvious crackpottery, but others have already done that within this thread. As Aesop explained millennia ago, life is too short to pay attention every time the village idiot cries wolf.
 
We should be able to tell there is a pandemic without media and government keeping us informed 24/7. My own personal experience has given me ZERO impression of any dangerous sickness around whatsoever - I hardly know a soul who's tested positive for the alleged covid

As I have already said, in this thread, my brother-in-law, nephew and niece have all had Covid, to varying degrees of severity. At least 3 of my friends have also had it, again with variations in how ill they got. I myself lost my sense of taste and smell last May. So, do my anecdotes- and those of the other posters who have told you theirs- outweigh yours, or will you find some other reason to dismiss them?
I am undecided whether you are a solipsist, or just wilfully blind. Either way, your rejection of the enormous amount of evidence for the existence of Covid (and, yes, before you say it, you have been presented with that evidence in this very thread, many many times) and reliance on personal anecdote is neither laudable nor logical.
 
No, your memory is failing you. It wasn't that I didn't answer a question of yours. it was that you didn't ask a question of mine.
For the umpteenth time:
Do you have any actual evidence that the scientific consensus about Covid is wrong, and do you have any actual evidence for the fraud you keep alleging?

Your suspicions and incredulity do not constitute evidence. Neither does your repetitive and frankly tiresome posting of the WHO link, which in any case has been dealt with upthread.

Evidence, Petra. Do you have any evidence?

Bump for Petra.
 
I had to drop out and just dropped back in but I seem to remember I asked a question of you Cosmic Yak that I didn't receive an answer to - I might have missed it - but in case not I'll ask again.

If the pandemic is a scam as a minority claim then signs of the scam should be apparent right from the start. My study of psyops shows that, generally, the scam will be a complete hoax, all made up, not a mix of real and fake, except where it suits and from the outset I couldn't see any reason at all why they'd want a real virus as part of the psyop - you cannot control a virus and the reality of trying to use a real virus would totally get in the way. Moreover, they really like to put the HOAX in hoax and really have a laugh at us by pushing their fakery right in our faces, it's not about replicating reality or simulating it as much as possible, that's not how they do it - with psyop propaganda, humiliation with nonsense is the name of the game. I mean, they only needed a couple of planes into the twin towers for their terror story (impossible of itself according to air defence protocol and a few other things) but no - no, no, no - they had their band of boxcutter-armed hijackers in their passenger airliner plough into Defence HQ. Yes, Defence HQ! Imagine that!

By rights, there should have been red faces, no? By rights, the US government should have been attacked by their critics and certainly taxpayers should have been asking a few questions about how, supposedly, the best defended airspace in the world turned out to be, in fact, completely vulnerable. How did this happen? Congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney did ask after all. She did ask. She asked in Congress:
https://youtu.be/NcEUnDTOj_g?t=1557

"Did the four war games happening on the morning of 9/11 impair the military’s ability to respond to the attacks?”

Her question was responded to by General Richard Myers, Acting Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff on 9/11, as follows:

“The answer to the question is no, it did not impair our response, in fact General Eberhart who was in the command of the North American Aerospace Defense Command as he testified in front of the 9/11 Commission I believe … I believe he told them that it enhanced our ability to respond, given that NORAD didn’t have the overall responsibility for responding to the attacks that day, that was an FAA responsibility. But there were two CPXs [Command Post Exercises]; there was one Department of Justice exercise that didn’t have anything to do with the other three and there was an actual operation ongoing because there was some Russian bomber activity up near Alaska.”

If you believe that ...

I digress. So my question is, Cosmic Yak, where do you disagree with my claim that what is put forward for suspicion of a "novel" virus is completely unscientific?

Suspicion of a "novel" virus is based on an alleged "cluster" of 44 cases of pneumonia of "unknown origin" in the highly-polluted city of Wuhan.
A "cluster" is presumably identified by the fact of "unknown origin", however, pneumonia is not thought to have a "known origin" particularly so "unknown origin" makes no sense. 44 cases in a highly-polluted city doesn't make a cluster in the first place but if a cluster were to be determined on the basis of 44 cases then surely there would be specific symptoms that identified it, not the claim of "unknown origin".

Then, if indeed these 44 cases of pneumonia were caused by a novel virus why is the association between pneumonia and the novel virus now completely lost?

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2020-DON229

Where is the "science" in this suspicion? Pray, do tell.
I see smartcooky has asked the question I was going to ask.

WTF is any of this chaotic word salad supposed to mean?

Petra this, I am not sure whether you believe COVID-19 is real, whether you believe it is caused by SARS-COV-2, whether you believe it is serious.

In fact nothing beyond that you disagree with Cosmic Yak.
 
Well Big Pharma for starters certainly are, aren't they?

If only you could prove that the entire health industry, including the majority of scientists in every country in the world, were in on some scam to hurt people for money... but you can't, because it's not true.

If you want to look at scams that hurt people, you can begin with the covid disinfo and conspiracy sites. Maybe you can buy some overpriced vitamins or a bleach spray for your sinuses to protect against the "plandemic".

Don't you have a blog? Aren't you getting click revenue by spreading lies that lead to sickness and death? Maybe look at yourself.
 
2. The "protests" were not done in an actually protected manner and did not have reasonable demands.
What do you mean? “The right of the people, to be bouncy shall not be infringed” means that we can put bouncy houses on downtown streets wherever we want. At least in the USA.

Oh, this is Canada. Somebody tell protestor Dwayne Lich:

"Honestly? I thought it was a peaceful protest and based on my first amendment, I thought that was part of our rights," he told the court.

"What do you mean, first amendment? What's that?" Judge Julie Bourgeois asked him.

"I don't know. I don't know politics. I don't know," he said. "I wasn't supportive of the blockade or the whatever, but I didn't realize that it was criminal to do what they were doing. I thought it was part of our freedoms to be able to do stuff like that."
 
What do you mean? “The right of the people, to be bouncy shall not be infringed” means that we can put bouncy houses on downtown streets wherever we want. At least in the USA.

Oh, this is Canada. Somebody tell protestor Dwayne Lich:

Canadians want a do-over in Ottawa, but for a more intelligent cause. Now we want a hot tub on every street.
 
What do you mean? “The right of the people, to be bouncy shall not be infringed” means that we can put bouncy houses on downtown streets wherever we want. At least in the USA.

Oh, this is Canada. Somebody tell protestor Dwayne Lich:

Well informed protests are the lifeblood of democracy! :jaw-dropp

"I'm just here to protest! Don't bother me with details of what the protest is about!!"
 
Good to know, thnx !
I don't have any idea why you think a reference to "what Bill Gates sounds like" has any relation to my observation that actual, often fatal, suppression of dissent by law abiding protestors seeking actual human rights for people once enslaved was seen and experienced by people still alive and still seeking justice, but I think your snide and slap-happy trivializing of the remark says much more about your character and that of your kind than you realize, and what it says cannot be printed here.
 
Well Big Pharma for starters certainly are, aren't they?

Good question.

Big Pharma, huh?

Does this mean every single government worker worldwide was told "Hey, there's this fake pandemic coming, Big Pharma needs to sell those very dangerous fake vaccines which will kill off a significant portion of human population, but don't be surprised when after billions of vaccinations the big die out still hasn't occured, people will be dying soon TM"

Because for this to work, every single government worker worldwide would have to be involved...........................................................................................................Yeah, I know, no problem for you at all. But can you at least show evidence for how they solved the massive logistical problems of coordinating a global fake pandemic? No, you can't...you only have youtube videos....
 
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As I have already said, in this thread, my brother-in-law, nephew and niece have all had Covid, to varying degrees of severity. At least 3 of my friends have also had it, again with variations in how ill they got. I myself lost my sense of taste and smell last May. So, do my anecdotes- and those of the other posters who have told you theirs- outweigh yours, or will you find some other reason to dismiss them?
I am undecided whether you are a solipsist, or just wilfully blind. Either way, your rejection of the enormous amount of evidence for the existence of Covid (and, yes, before you say it, you have been presented with that evidence in this very thread, many many times) and reliance on personal anecdote is neither laudable nor logical.

My wife is a social worker and saw COVID deaths up close and personal at the very beginnings of this pandemic. My daughter and her husband contracted the virus recently, but because they took advantage of the life-saving vaccines (and boosters) they did well despite comorbidities.

Also posted upthread were links to papers demonstrating the isolation and sequencing of SARS-CoV-2, and how it causes COVID-19. I see no reason to repeat this information ad infinitum, jumping through hoops held by posters who have been too well gulled by the propaganda they've consumed.
 
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Big Pharma, huh?

Does this mean every single government worker worldwide was told "Hey, there's this fake pandemic coming, Big Pharma needs to sell those very dangerous fake vaccines which will kill off a significant portion of human population, but don't be surprised when after billions of vaccinations the big die out still hasn't occured, people will be dying soon TM"

Because for this to work, every single government worker worldwide would have to be involved...........................................................................................................Yeah, I know, no problem for you at all. But can you at least show evidence for how they solved the massive logistical problems of coordinating a global fake pandemic? No, you can't...you only have youtube videos....
The fact that you can't imagine how such a global conspiracy could work is the greatest triumph of the global conspiracy. If you deny the obvious because it is obvious, you cannot lose an argument. It's brilliant.
 
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