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Oxford High School, Michigan, school shooting.

plague311 said:
Excuse me, sir! They're not, you know, like, EVERY day.
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True, but they live with the threat every day.

Firstly, there are constant reminders... 34 school shootings the US in 2021... about one every two weeks.

Secondly, there are the "active shooter drills" that are carried out regularly in 95% of K-12 schools in the US. That's another reminder.

And those active shooter drills are not helping - they are doing more harm than good.

https://everytownresearch.org/report/the-impact-of-active-shooter-drills-in-schools/

"While there is limited proof of the effectiveness of these drills, anecdotal evidence, including many online conversations, increasingly suggests that active shooter drills may be harmful to mental health. In order to examine these concerns using scientific methods, Everytown partnered with Georgia Institute of Technology’s Social Dynamics and Wellbeing Lab (Georgia Tech) to study the immediate and long-term impacts of active shooter drills on the health and wellbeing of students, teachers, and parents. "

"The results were sobering: Active shooter drills in schools are associated with increases in depression (39%), stress and anxiety (42%), and physiological health problems (23%) overall, including children from as young as five years old up to high schoolers, their parents, and teachers. Concerns over death increased by 22 percent, with words like blood, pain, clinics, and pills becoming a consistent feature of social media posts in school communities in the 90 days after a school drill. These findings unveil even more reason to pause before rushing toward active shooter drills as a potential solution to school violence, as evidence suggests that they are causing lasting emotional and physical harm to students, teachers, and the larger community."

Scientific study published in "Nature"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-021-00993-6

Active shooter drills are not even a thing anywhere else in the civilized world. They are just another example of America treating the symptom instead of treating the sickness... guns.
 
abaddon said:
Not sure that is entirely true. My kids are all growed up now, but back in the day I actively participated with their online exploits. Oddly it was considered strange for me to do so. But I have been an IT head for all my life so it seemed natural to me to enjoy that online life and explain just what exactly "trolls" are.


Quite. One might be forgiven in any other country for dismissing such a threat, but given the sheer volume of school shootings in the US, one must wonder WTF they were thinking.

If the students are armed, let's arm the teachers. When that don't work arm the teachers with RPGs or Javelins, why not? Or nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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"We had to nuke the High School to save it".
Teenagers from Outer Space
 
The trial for the parents of Ethan started today. A link to an article that goes over some of the initial testimony. It appears that the mother knew her son was troubled for awhile. Her friend said:

that Jennifer Crumbley had confided last summer that her son was "weird" and "didn't do normal kid things."
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Which, alone, doesn't mean much but it's pretty clear there is a fairly extensive history of troubling behavior that was known to the parents.

Something really weird is that according to her boss:

She left and texted Smith just before 1:30 p.m. to inform him "the gun is gone and so are the bullets," he said.

“OMG Andy, he’s going to kill himself he must be the shooter,” Jennifer texted Smith, according to testimony.

“Ethan did it,” Jennifer added in another text. “I need my job. Please don’t judge me for what my son did.”

Smith testified he was "surprised" and "alarmed" by her text message. “I was surprised she was worried about her job at that point; I thought she would be more concerned about what was going on," he told the court.
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There's a bunch more in the article, but Jennifer really does seem like a **** parent.
 
plague311 said:
The trial for the parents of Ethan started today. A link to an article that goes over some of the initial testimony. It appears that the mother knew her son was troubled for awhile. Her friend said:



Which, alone, doesn't mean much but it's pretty clear there is a fairly extensive history of troubling behavior that was known to the parents.

Something really weird is that according to her boss:



There's a bunch more in the article, but Jennifer really does seem like a **** parent.
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Narrator Voice: she actually didn’t need her job.
 
I wonder how many times this has needed to be said\addressed:

McDonald also said she wants Nicholson to order the Crumbleys to stop mouthing “I love you” to each other in court, arguing it's traumatic for the families of victims.

On Tuesday, Nicholson warned the couple not to have communication with each other: "It's disrespectful and it's disruptive," she said.
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Freedom of speech!
 
A lot was made here about the fact the 'news' of the active shooter couldn't have reached the public until forty-five minutes after the incident. From the trial story in the Detroit News:
Andrew Smith, Crumbley's direct supervisor, said she'd returned to work and was in the copy room. He later heard her "screaming down the hallway" that there was an active shooter at Ethan's school. She left and texted Smith just before 1:30 p.m. to inform him "the gun is gone and so are the bullets," he said. “OMG Andy, he’s going to kill himself he must be the shooter,” Jennifer texted Smith, according to testimony. Detroit News
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When did Jennifer Crumbley learn there was an active shooter? She left work, drove home and looked for the hand gun. Then she texted her Boss "just before 1:30." So she must have known there was an active shooter -- not 'police activity' -- by 1:15. How did she find out? Social media? A school alert that said "active shooter?"

The details coming out are making it clearer why the local prosecutor decided to charge Crumbley and her husband. I don't know if the Crumbley's will be convicted but I am glad, especially as a parent, that they were called to account.
 
newyorkguy said:
The details coming out are making it clearer why the local prosecutor decided to charge Crumbley and her husband. I don't know if the Crumbley's will be convicted but I am glad, especially as a parent, that they were called to account.
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I feel the same way. I don't know if they'll be convicted. I don't know if they ought to be convicted. Regardless, they ought to face something, even beyond the knowledge and awareness that they will never touch their son again, and they really ought to move and change their names.
 
plague311 said:
The trial for the parents of Ethan started today. A link to an article that goes over some of the initial testimony. It appears that the mother knew her son was troubled for awhile. Her friend said:
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Ok. But to be fair, I probably said something similar to my friends when my son was a teenager. That, in and of itself, isn't very concerning at all. Some of our kids ARE weird, but that doesn't mean that we think they are about to shoot up a school. In my case, my son wasn't like their kids. He didn't want to go to parties, he wasn't really interested in girls and he was socially awkward.

Not excusing the parents in any way, but some of this stuff is just irrelevant. More gossipy than useful.



Which, alone, doesn't mean much but it's pretty clear there is a fairly extensive history of troubling behavior that was known to the parents.

Something really weird is that according to her boss:



There's a bunch more in the article, but Jennifer really does seem like a **** parent.
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Yeah, that's weird, all right. But I haven't seen anything that shows the parents knew about some of the more troubling behavior.

BlueMountain asked about how easy it would be for a teenager to hide stuff from their parents. I say, it's pretty damn easy. My kids did all kinds of things that I only found out about when they were adults. I know my parents didn't know half the crap I did. I don't think it necessarily means "****" parents. It depends on what they knew and when they knew it.
 
xjx388 said:
Ok. But to be fair, I probably said something similar to my friends when my son was a teenager. That, in and of itself, isn't very concerning at all. Some of our kids ARE weird, but that doesn't mean that we think they are about to shoot up a school. In my case, my son wasn't like their kids. He didn't want to go to parties, he wasn't really interested in girls and he was socially awkward.

Not excusing the parents in any way, but some of this stuff is just irrelevant. More gossipy than useful.

Yeah, that's weird, all right. But I haven't seen anything that shows the parents knew about some of the more troubling behavior.

BlueMountain asked about how easy it would be for a teenager to hide stuff from their parents. I say, it's pretty damn easy. My kids did all kinds of things that I only found out about when they were adults. I know my parents didn't know half the crap I did. I don't think it necessarily means "****" parents. It depends on what they knew and when they knew it.
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Yeah, we'll just have to disagree. This all didn't happen in a vacuum and she had no hesitation knowing that her kid was the shooter and thought he was going to hurt himself.

I get the whole "kids are weird" and "kids get away with stuff", but he wasn't going too far out of his way to hide **** from his parents. If you read through the article the mother made multiple mentions of Ethan's odd behavior. I showed a few links. She also seemed to care more about her job than the fact her son shot and killed people.

She's a **** parent.
 
xjx388 said:
Ok. But to be fair, I probably said something similar to my friends when my son was a teenager. That, in and of itself, isn't very concerning at all. Some of our kids ARE weird, but that doesn't mean that we think they are about to shoot up a school.
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1. They knew there was something abnormal or "weird" about their son, but they went out and bought him a handgun anyway.

2. They got called to his school, where they were shown a picture he had drawn of a handgun and a bloodied figure of a person, along with the words, "Help me", "My life is useless", "The world is dead" and "Blood everywhere".

3. They knew he had access to the handgun, but they didn't warn the school counsellor, or check his backpack to see if he had it with him.

4. They refused to take him home.

...and you see all this, and you would not be at all concerned? There are no red flags in any of this for you?. If this was your son, and you

1. Knew he was a little bit weird
2. knew he had access to a gun
3. Saw that drawing he made

Would you have warned the school about his access to the gun?

Would you have checked his backpack to see if he had it with him?

One does not need hindsight to recognise this set of circumstances as a five-alarm fire. This is not just a red flag, its a bloody field full of red flags! Warning the school of his ready access to firearms was an absolute minimum step the Crumbley's should have taken.
 
Uhm, so, in support of my "she's a **** parent" here's a link to some of the stuff that came out during the pre-trial event yesterday. They all have dates and stuff, I'll give just a few:

March 9, 2021
Ethan to Jennifer:

Ethan, 7:50 p.m.: "Can you get home now?"
Ethan: "There’s someone in the house I think"
Ethan.: "Someone walked into the bathroom and flushed the toilet and left the light on"
Ethan: "And I thought it was you but when I came out there was no one home"
Ethan: "There's no one in the house tho"
Ethan: "Dude my door just slammed"
Ethan, 8:01 p.m.: "Maybe it’s just my paranoia"
Ethan: "But when are you going to get home"

Jennifer did not respond to Ethan on March 9. Det. Edward Wagrowski, who has 25 years with the Oakland County Sheriff's Office and seven years with the computer crimes unit, said photos showed that she was horseback riding at the time.
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She just completely ignores him because she's horseback riding. Those messages alone would have me EXTREMELY concerned, but don't worry, she does it again!

March 17, 2021
Ethan to Jennifer:

Ethan, 6:03 p.m.: "Ok the house is now haunted"
Ethan: "Some wierd s*** just happens and now I’m scared"
Ethan: "I got some videos"
Ethan: "And a picture of the demon"
Ethan: "It is throwing BOWLS"
Ethan: "I am not joking it ********* up the kitchen"
Ethan: "I’m just going to be outsider for a while"
Ethan, 6:29 p.m.: "Can you at least text back"

Jennifer did not respond. Wagrowski said she was again horseback riding.

She would not text Ethan again until the afternoon of March 19, 2021.
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These were about 8+ months before the event happened and those are just two of the extremely concerning things he told her, and she completely ignored. It didn't even warrant a reply from her because....HORSES!

Both parents are terrible, terrible parents that neglected their sons' mental health issues. These aren't just red flags, imo.
 
plague311 said:
Uhm, so, in support of my "she's a **** parent" here's a link to some of the stuff that came out during the pre-trial event yesterday. They all have dates and stuff, I'll give just a few:

March 9, 2021
Ethan to Jennifer:

Ethan, 7:50 p.m.: "Can you get home now?"
Ethan: "There’s someone in the house I think"
Ethan.: "Someone walked into the bathroom and flushed the toilet and left the light on"
Ethan: "And I thought it was you but when I came out there was no one home"
Ethan: "There's no one in the house tho"
Ethan: "Dude my door just slammed"
Ethan, 8:01 p.m.: "Maybe it’s just my paranoia"
Ethan: "But when are you going to get home"

Jennifer did not respond to Ethan on March 9. Det. Edward Wagrowski, who has 25 years with the Oakland County Sheriff's Office and seven years with the computer crimes unit, said photos showed that she was horseback riding at the time.
Click to expand...

She just completely ignores him because she's horseback riding. Those messages alone would have me EXTREMELY concerned, but don't worry, she does it again!

March 17, 2021
Ethan to Jennifer:

Ethan, 6:03 p.m.: "Ok the house is now haunted"
Ethan: "Some wierd s*** just happens and now I’m scared"
Ethan: "I got some videos"
Ethan: "And a picture of the demon"
Ethan: "It is throwing BOWLS"
Ethan: "I am not joking it ********* up the kitchen"
Ethan: "I’m just going to be outsider for a while"
Ethan, 6:29 p.m.: "Can you at least text back"

Jennifer did not respond. Wagrowski said she was again horseback riding.

She would not text Ethan again until the afternoon of March 19, 2021.
Click to expand...

These were about 8+ months before the event happened and those are just two of the extremely concerning things he told her, and she completely ignored. It didn't even warrant a reply from her because....HORSES!

Both parents are terrible, terrible parents that neglected their sons' mental health issues. These aren't just red flags, imo.
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This is clear and obvious parental neglect!
 
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