The Peng Shuai Affair

Tennis Australia defends banning ‘Where is Peng Shuai?’ T-shirts at Australian Open

Australian Open officials call police on protesters supporting the tennis player who disappeared after accusing top Chinese official of sexual assault


Tennis Australia maintains Peng Shuai’s safety is its “primary concern” despite asking fans at Melbourne Park to remove T-shirts and a banner bearing the words “Where is Peng Shuai?”

Australian Open players have continued to express concern for the wellbeing of the Chinese tennis player who in early November accused a senior Chinese official of sexual assault.

But tournament officials have confiscated material they deemed to contain political statements.

...

TA on Sunday confirmed that was the case.

“Under our ticket conditions of entry we don’t allow clothing, banners or signs that are commercial or political,” a Tennis Australia spokesperson told Guardian Australia.

“Peng Shuai’s safety is our primary concern. We continue to work with the WTA and global tennis community to seek more clarity on her situation and will do everything we can to ensure her wellbeing.”
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BobTheCoward said:
Here is my periodic check in....

Has anyone found any evidence she was coerced or being held?
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If you would have been around in 1937, I'm sure you have been asking the very same question about the Moscow trials - and those guys did even confess after all, so let us give a benefit of doubt to the regime.

I guess Peng Shuai might now be prosecuted for making a serious and baseless accusation against a distinguished public official.
 
llwyd said:
If you would have been around in 1937, I'm sure you have been asking the very same question about the Moscow trials - and those guys did even confess after all, so let us give a benefit of doubt to the regime.

I guess Peng Shuai might now be prosecuted for making a serious and baseless accusation against a distinguished public official.
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That is. lot of words to say, "No, I don't have evidence."
 
Tennis Australia backflips on 'Where is Peng Shuai?' T-shirt ban at Australian Open

Tennis Australia has overturned a ban on Australian Open spectators wearing T-shirts referencing the controversy around Chinese player Peng Shuai.

It comes after security and police at Melbourne Park on Saturday ordered two spectators to remove their T-shirts and a banner with the message "Where is Peng Shuai?"

Tennis Australia said it confiscated them because they were political.

But it has now softened its stance.

A spokesperson said the body would now take a common-sense approach to ticketing conditions and it would allow certain messaging as long as there was no disruption to the event.
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I thought their original position was reasonable. It's clearly a political message. They have a ban on political messages. Such a ban is reasonable.

The decision to be inconsistent here just undermines the rule
 
theprestige said:
I thought their original position was reasonable. It's clearly a political message. They have a ban on political messages. Such a ban is reasonable.

The decision to be inconsistent here just undermines the rule
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Huh? Why is a ban on "political messages" acceptable? Are people so thin-skinned that they cannot tolerate printed words on a t-shirt, let alone when it's at a tennis event concerning the kidnapping of a tennis player by a corrupt superpower?
 
Tippit said:
Huh? Why is a ban on "political messages" acceptable?
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It's reasonable for organizers of a sporting event to want the focus of the event to be on the sport, not political debate.

Are people so thin-skinned that they cannot tolerate printed words on a t-shirt,
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Strawman.

let alone when it's at a tennis event concerning the kidnapping of a tennis player by a corrupt superpower?
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Politics relating to tennis is still politics. It's still reasonable for organizers of sporting events to require attendees to leave their political debates at the gate.

There's no shortage of venues to address the political concerns - including venues with the organizers of this sporting event.

It is not always justified to co-opt someone else's platform just because you want a platform but can't be bothered to build one yourself. The event was organized to present a tennis competition, not political grandstanding. That's a reasonable way to organize an event. You're not entitled to repurpose their event for your own interests.
 
theprestige said:
It's reasonable for organizers of a sporting event to want the focus of the event to be on the sport, not political debate.
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I don't want "organizers" determining what my focus should be, or rather, dictating what people wear, short of basic dress code. They're words. Do you support freedom of speech? Do you really want to live in a world where every different venue, shop, or event has a different standard? I don't, and it doesn't bode well for the future.

Politics relating to tennis is still politics. It's still reasonable for organizers of sporting events to require attendees to leave their political debates at the gate.
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Except, it's not a debate, it's a tennis match with people wearing t-shirts with words on them. Do you favor sending home a paying customer who has the wrong words on his t-shirt? Do you offer them a refund? What specific words do you have a problem with? Who decides what words are political, and what aren't?

There's no shortage of venues to address the political concerns - including venues with the organizers of this sporting event.

It is not always justified to co-opt someone else's platform just because you want a platform but can't be bothered to build one yourself. The event was organized to present a tennis competition, not political grandstanding. That's a reasonable way to organize an event. You're not entitled to repurpose their event for your own interests.
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Claiming that the wearing of a t-shirt represents the "addressing of a political concern" is a strawman. Claiming that a tennis match is a "platform" is a strawman. Claiming that the simple wearing of a t-shirt that questions the whereabouts of a tennis player who was kidnapped by the Chinese Communist Party represents the "repurposing of an event" is a strawman.
 
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Tippit said:
I don't want "organizers" determining what my focus should be, or rather, dictating what people wear, short of basic dress code. They're words. Do you support freedom of speech? Do you really want to live in a world where every different venue, shop, or event has a different standard? I don't, and it doesn't bode well for the future.



Except, it's not a debate, it's a tennis match with people wearing t-shirts with words on them. Do you favor sending home a paying customer who has the wrong words on his t-shirt? Do you offer them a refund? What specific words do you have a problem with? Who decides what words are political, and what aren't?



Claiming that the wearing of a t-shirt represents the "addressing of a political concern" is a strawman. Claiming that a tennis match is a "platform" is a strawman. Claiming that the simple wearing of a t-shirt that questions the whereabouts of a tennis player who was kidnapped by the Chinese Communist Party represents the "repurposing of an event" is a strawman.
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Clearly I'm not going to reason you out of this position. I'm content to let the other readers decide for themselves which of our positions has more merit.
 
theprestige said:
Clearly I'm not going to reason you out of this position. I'm content to let the other readers decide for themselves which of our positions has more merit.
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Well, if you're talking about the average reader here who is clearly anti-free speech, you will definitely win a poll. That says nothing about the "merit" of your position.
 
Tippit said:
Well, if you're talking about the average reader here who is clearly anti-free speech, you will definitely win a poll. That says nothing about the "merit" of your position.
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I've already reached my own conclusion about which one of us has the right idea here. I can't force you to change your mind. I'm not sure what else you think I should be doing.
 
theprestige said:
I've already reached my own conclusion about which one of us has the right idea here. I can't force you to change your mind. I'm not sure what else you think I should be doing.
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You should admit that you're wrong about the increasingly Orwellian Australian's action to ban a t-shirt from their already comical and meaningless Australian Open, or admit that you're anti-free speech.
 
In case anyone else is wondering:

They're a private organization. Free speech is about government not unnecessarily suppressing the speech of its citizens.

What we're looking at her is a clear case of freedom of association, and the event organizers being free not to associate with people who want to make political statements at their sporting event.

Tippit seems to be convinced that freedom of speech means everyone has to allow anyone to say anything they want, anywhere they want, any time they want. Never mind that this contradicts freedom of association, and isn't what these freedoms are about anyway.

The most ironic thing about this exchange is that I fully agree that people should be speaking out about Peng Shuai's situation. I think they should be protesting. I even think they should probably be crashing tennis events to make their protests.

But I also think the organizers have a legitimate right to restrict messaging at their events, and no "free speech" obligation to allow anyone to say anything they want at such an event.
 
theprestige said:
In case anyone else is wondering:

They're a private organization. Free speech is about government not unnecessarily suppressing the speech of its citizens.
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It's a private organization, but it's also large public tennis tournament and a functional business. Free speech is more than a just law preventing a government from infringing on speech, it's an ideal that needs to be upheld by everyone almost everywhere in order for it to perpetuate.

What we're looking at her is a clear case of freedom of association, and the event organizers being free not to associate with people who want to make political statements at their sporting event.
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You built another strawman. Wearing a t-shirt with words on it isn't necessarily a political statement, and even if it is it should be an acceptable political statement virtually everywhere in public.

Tippit seems to be convinced that freedom of speech means everyone has to allow anyone to say anything they want, anywhere they want, any time they want. Never mind that this contradicts freedom of association, and isn't what these freedoms are about anyway.
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And, you built yet another strawman. I was talking about wearing a t-shirt with words on it, not interrupting a tennis match with a megaphone, or holding a sit in on center court.

The most ironic thing about this exchange is that I fully agree that people should be speaking out about Peng Shuai's situation. I think they should be protesting. I even think they should probably be crashing tennis events to make their protests.

But I also think the organizers have a legitimate right to restrict messaging at their events, and no "free speech" obligation to allow anyone to say anything they want at such an event.
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Once again, we're merely talking about the wearing of a t-shirt with words on it. Your claim of support for Peng Shuai's "situation" (I would call it a kidnapping) and your weak claim of support of freedom of speech next to your strong support of association rights is contradictory and nonsensical. What if a "protester" wore the t-shirt hidden under a jacket, removed the jacket during the match, and then had their access revoked and was escorted out by security? What about their contract rights under the law? They purchased a ticket to witness a sporting event - yet you would support their capricious removal under some dubious clause in the fine print of the ticket, no doubt.

No, you're wrong. Free speech is more important than free association in business, public venues, and social networks. Banning people from wearing t-shirts in public venues and businesses that seek to impose Orwellian standards for dress is effectively banning them everywhere, since most people go from venue to venue as a consequence of living their daily life. If one has to plan their attire for the political impact and response it may have on any one of a handful of businesses they plan on patronizing, then everyone will focus on wearing the least offensive and most politically correct things that they could possibly wear, and this will have a massive chilling effect on society at large.

I carry my gun everywhere I want in Florida, regardless of whether signs are posted prohibiting them, because unless it's a Federal or government building, those signs aren't legally binding, and it's not illegal for me to do so. At worst, if I "print", I may be asked to leave.

Keep your absolute love of freedom of association in your living room where it belongs, not in public.

Also, free Feng Shuai, and **** the Australian Open and the Chinese Communist Party.
 
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Tippit said:
Huh? Why is a ban on "political messages" acceptable? Are people so thin-skinned that they cannot tolerate printed words on a t-shirt, let alone when it's at a tennis event concerning the kidnapping of a tennis player by a corrupt superpower?
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Maybe the tournament directors aren't interested in the possibility of dueling t-shirts among the fans. I think they have that right.
 
Tippit said:
Except, it's not a debate, it's a tennis match with people wearing t-shirts with words on them. Do you favor sending home a paying customer who has the wrong words on his t-shirt? Do you offer them a refund? What specific words do you have a problem with? Who decides what words are political, and what aren't?
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Words are more important than you appear to think. Also, did you miss the fact that the decision was reversed a day later?
 
trustbutverify said:
Maybe the tournament directors aren't interested in the possibility of dueling t-shirts among the fans. I think they have that right.
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Yes. The "disappear and memory hole Peng Shuai" t-shirt wearing contingent might cause a ruckus.

And where exactly is the right not to be offended by other people's t-shirts enumerated? The snowflake manifesto?
 
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