The Jan. 6 Investigation

[Ziggurat]

Sorry, your arguments and assertions are not convincing anyone in this thread (except maybe Warp12), especially not me.

Will you be convinced when Trump isn't charged with a crime? I seem to recall that was the proposed standard.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Will you be convinced when Trump isn't charged with a crime? I seem to recall that was the proposed standard.

A hypothetical that hasn't happened isn't something I see the point in entertaining.

But if that's your question, will you be convinced when Dump is charged?

 

[Aridas]

Will you be convinced when Trump isn't charged with a crime? I seem to recall that was the proposed standard.

On that note, should anyone be convinced that, for example, Trump had nothing to do with massive inheritance tax/gift tax fraud simply because he wasn't charged with it?

 

[EaglePuncher]

A hypothetical that hasn't happened isn't something I see the point in entertaining.

But if that's your question, will you be convinced when Dump is charged?

No, of course it will be a massive, totally unjust conspiracy from the rADicAl LeFt to destroy this good mans reputation

 

[Crossbow]

A hypothetical that hasn't happened isn't something I see the point in entertaining.

But if that's your question, will you be convinced when Dump is charged?

If I may chime in here ...

I sure hope that Trump is criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

However, I think that is rather unlikely that Trump will be criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

After all, if history is any guide, then ex-presidents have a long and well established history of getting away with criminal charges.

Donal Trump was never criminally charged with anything even though he has defrauded hundreds, and probably thousands, or people over the years, as well as sexually assualt dozens of different women. And those are just two of his many crimes.

George W. Bush was never criminally charged even though he instituted torture programs and murdered hundreds of thousands for no good reason.

Ronald Reagan never got criminally charged even though he allowed the whole Iran-Contra Affair to develop.

Richard Nixion never got criminally charged even though he was neck-deep in the Watergate Scandal.

And so on.

 

[Ziggurat]

A hypothetical that hasn't happened isn't something I see the point in entertaining.

That's... odd.

But if that's your question, will you be convinced when Dump is charged?

Depends. Bogus charges happen.

A criminal conviction would surprise me, and indicate that I was wrong in my assessment.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

If I may chime in here ...

I sure hope that Trump is criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

However, I think that is rather unlikely that Trump will be criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

After all, if history is any guide, then ex-presidents have a long and well established history of getting away with criminal charges.

Donal Trump was never criminally charged with anything even though he has defrauded hundreds, and probably thousands, or people over the years, as well as sexually assualt dozens of different women. And those are just two of his many crimes.

George W. Bush was never criminally charged even though he instituted torture programs and murdered hundreds of thousands for no good reason.

Ronald Reagan never got criminally charged even though he allowed the whole Iran-Contra Affair to develop.

Richard Nixion never got criminally charged even though he was neck-deep in the Watergate Scandal.

And so on.

This is different there is some chance that Donald Trump might be charged by a grand Jury.

 

[JoeMorgue]

This is like arguing that lynchings were okay because Southern White Juries always refused to convict people for them.

 

[Ziggurat]

This is like arguing that lynchings were okay because Southern White Juries always refused to convict people for them.

First off, I wasn't the one who established prosecutions/convictions as the standard. The Great Zaganza did. And you were on board.

Second, if Trump ever does get prosecuted, you can be damn sure the prosecutors are going to pick a venue where the jury pool won't be inclined in his favor.

 

[Lurch]

If I may chime in here ...

I sure hope that Trump is criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

However, I think that is rather unlikely that Trump will be criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

After all, if history is any guide, then ex-presidents have a long and well established history of getting away with criminal charges.

Donal Trump was never criminally charged with anything even though he has defrauded hundreds, and probably thousands, or people over the years, as well as sexually assualt dozens of different women. And those are just two of his many crimes.

George W. Bush was never criminally charged even though he instituted torture programs and murdered hundreds of thousands for no good reason.

Ronald Reagan never got criminally charged even though he allowed the whole Iran-Contra Affair to develop.

Richard Nixion never got criminally charged even though he was neck-deep in the Watergate Scandal.

And so on.

Presidents are America's problem children that are never held accountable.

What a great gig for the scum of society to aspire to.

 

[Crossbow]

This is like arguing that lynchings were okay because Southern White Juries always refused to convict people for them.

Sorry, but that is not right at all.

While I am sure that you mean well, however you are quite incorrect all the same.

As for me (and I expect many, many, many other people), would absolutely LOVE it if that stupid, idiotic, lying POS Trump with the orange hair and orange skin would spend at least some time in prison wearing an orange jumpsuit for what he did on January 6.

However, one must face reality, and desires do not automatically become realities.

After all, it does not appear that Trump actually did anything illegal himself during January 6. And while it is clearly true that Trump behaved in a quite reprehensible way on January 6, that is not the same thing as performing an illegal act, or acts, on January 6.

As a result, I expect that the reality is that while Trump may eventually go to jail and/or pay some big civil penalties for least some of his numerous other crimes, I really doubt that Trump will have to go jail for what happened on January 6.

 

[Crossbow]

Presidents are America's problem children that are never held accountable.

What a great gig for the scum of society to aspire to.

Alas! You are quite correct.

Even though no one is supposed to be above the law, we still always find numerous ways at keeping those who are in high office and/or those who were in high office above the law all the same.

 

[EaglePuncher]

Sorry, but that is not right at all.

While I am sure that you mean well, however you are quite incorrect all the same.

As for me (and I expect many, many, many other people), would absolutely LOVE it if that stupid, idiotic, lying POS Trump with the orange hair and orange skin would spend at least some time in prison wearing an orange jumpsuit for what he did on January 6.

However, one must face reality, and desires do not automatically become realities.

After all, it does not appear that Trump actually did anything illegal himself during January 6. And while it is clearly true that Trump behaved in a quite reprehensible way on January 6, that is not the same thing as performing an illegal act, or acts, on January 6.

As a result, I expect that the reality is that while Trump may eventually go to jail and/or pay some big civil penalties for least some of his numerous other crimes, I really doubt that Trump will have to go jail for what happened on January 6.

Yeah, the traitorous mob only slowly moved towards the building, kicking the air in front of them. It was clearly the buildings fault for not moving out of their way.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This is different there is some chance that Donald Trump might be charged by a grand Jury.

Exactly, it's very different. Much as I think some of those past POTUSes should have been charged (especially GW lying us into a war), that crime as well as Reagan's were policy related. And the Pentagon Papers demonstrated just how common it was (is) to lie to the American public when it comes to wars.

Nixon was forced to resign so it's not like his crime of obstruction was ignored. And Clinton's charges (IMO) were the result of entrapment. He also did not get off Scott free.

This is completely different. And Dump will go down in history as the most corrupt POTUS ever* so there is that too. But seriously, Dump's crimes are nothing like past POTUSes. Attempting to stop the peaceful transfer of power is treasonous, not just horrible.

And a couple people in this thread have their heads in the sand that Dump broke no laws. It was more than getting rid of a troublesome priest even though Dump went to great efforts to get others to do a lot of the crimes. Giuliani is a classic example as was Meadows and the infamous Power Point Presentation. And a number of things Dump was directly involved in were never carried out like getting rid of Barr and installing Clark, so impossible to prove.

But Liz Cheney spelled out at least one specific law in the Federal Code that can be proved (again, IMO).

Rep. Liz Cheney says the January 6 committee has 'firsthand testimony' that Ivanka Trump tried 'at least twice' to get her father to stop the Capitol riot

Not everyone agrees. Of course they don't, they are like some people in this thread, finding wiggle room for Dump regardless of the obvious that was right there in front of us all.


*See David Cay Johnston's book, It's Even Worse Than You Think: What the Trump Administration is Doing to America It really was worse than I thought.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And yet, reality will still disappoint you.

And how does that translate to Dump being charged with "bogus charges"?

No charges or charges that he's not convicted of: I don't agree but I get your POV.

But "bogus charges", fabricated charges: that moves your point well into laughable territory.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

And how does that translate to Dump being charged with "bogus charges"?

No charges or charges that he's not convicted of: I don't agree but I get your POV.

But "bogus charges", fabricated charges: that moves your point well into laughable territory.

Charges he is convicted of are bogus; charges he is not convicted of is the even hand of the justice system at work.

Just like elections lost are stolen; elections won are the voice of the people.

 

[Ziggurat]

And how does that translate to Dump being charged with "bogus charges"?

It doesn't necessarily. I don't expect that to happen, but it's possible. The existence of charges in and of themselves don't prove much, not without any evaluation of their merits. That's not a hard concept, I'm not even sure if you actually disagree in principle, though you might disagree about probabilities.

 

[Ziggurat]

But Liz Cheney spelled out at least one specific law in the Federal Code that can be proved (again, IMO).

Rep. Liz Cheney says the January 6 committee has 'firsthand testimony' that Ivanka Trump tried 'at least twice' to get her father to stop the Capitol riot

I see no reference to any federal code in that story. I see the words "dereliction of duty" used, but that's not a specific law in the federal code. It's a common concept within the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), but even as the commander in chief, the president is a civilian, and the UCMJ doesn't apply to civilians. So as a legal matter Cheney cannot be referring to the UCMJ. So what's this specific law you're referring to?

 

[tyr_13]

If I may chime in here ...

I sure hope that Trump is criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

However, I think that is rather unlikely that Trump will be criminally charged in regards to what happened on January 6.

After all, if history is any guide, then ex-presidents have a long and well established history of getting away with criminal charges.

Donal Trump was never criminally charged with anything even though he has defrauded hundreds, and probably thousands, or people over the years, as well as sexually assualt dozens of different women. And those are just two of his many crimes.

George W. Bush was never criminally charged even though he instituted torture programs and murdered hundreds of thousands for no good reason.

Ronald Reagan never got criminally charged even though he allowed the whole Iran-Contra Affair to develop.

Richard Nixion never got criminally charged even though he was neck-deep in the Watergate Scandal.

And so on.

George Bush also has some possible criminal exposure with Iran-Contra that was never explored.

It is almost like the failure to hold the political right-wing accountable for criminal acts for fear of being viewed as 'partisan' has cost the US exactly what it wanted to avoid losing. It is the same failure of reasoning as the 'preserve the trust of the institution' acts for the courts by the left.

Stop trying to look reasonable to the unreasonable, and actually be reasonable to keep them in check.

 

[smartcooky]

Richard Nixon never got criminally charged even though he was neck-deep in the Watergate Scandal.

To be fair, Nixon wasn't charged only because President Gerald Ford pardoned him, and of course, he was still guilty because as we all know, accepting a pardon is "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it" [Burdick v United States 236 U.S. 79 (1915)]