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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

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Reformed Offlian said:
Wasting another poster's time with a bunch of irrelevant stuff that doesn't answer his question is not a "good deed". Nor is pointing out said irrelevance a punishment.

Who, independently from Bollyn, says that the Egyptians were forceably disappeared, in violation of the Rome Statute on enforced disappearance?
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Well Vixen says so. And Vixen obviously believes it to be true.
 
Hellbound said:
Just as an aside, I was trained as a combat engineer by the U. S. Army. So I have some experience with explosives.

The “typical pack” might be, if you’re referring to a shipping container of TNT or C-4. It certainly does not look like a typical emplacement for a demolition charge intended to cut through steel.

A solid block is inefficient and ineffective. Typical charges on a steel target would use a flat line or a flat triangular shape, or a shaped charge at the least (a line charge with a copper penetrating would be best). None of which is represented by the “box” seen in this thread.


Sent from my volcanic island lair using carrier pigeon.
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Just coming back to you about this:

Ridderstolpe: “I have been in contact with several experts and none of them hesitate to identify the object as a bomb. This type of bomb is used by armies all over the world and contains half a pound of a hexogen-type explosive (Composite B). This bomb had not exploded, and it is possible to see the fuse. If the bomb had exploded, it would have destroyed the ramp and removed the visor. It is possible that a similar charge has been on the starboard side (right) as there is considerable damage to the ramp. Mechanical contact causes damage with sharp edges and numerous contact fractures. However, the pressure waves convert the plates and crossbars into round shapes. Such damage is noticeable just on the starboard side of the ramp in several places. The load-bearing side crossbars at the bottom of the ramp are bent in a circular line and there are no traces of direct contact. Slightly higher up, the plates in the visor bulkhead near the starboard lock have somehow been reshaped. ” “I can come to no other conclusion than that all these observations together strongly suggest that that the visor has been blown off the starboard side and that the purpose has been to blow up both the ramp and the visor. When only one charge has exploded, the visor may have hung from the gate and lock. ”
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Johan Ridderstolpe, Engineer



“Our team of experts, including a high-quality British explosives expert, is convinced there have been explosives in the bow area. It is clearly visible to everyone. ” This was stated by Werner Humpel of the German team of researchers on August 10, 1999 (Aftonbladet on August 11, 1999). Experts from Meyer Shipyards also point out that a lighter can be seen from the bottom corner of the tapered package packed in 24 x x ”” plastic. The pack is in the midship port side, 26 feet above the waterline outside the ship’s 5th deck. According to maritime experts, the packages were attached to magnetic disks, so this package may have moved from one part of the ship to another due to the accident
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So is this really not anything you have ever come across?
 
GlennB said:
I seriously doubt that she actually believes it. Not now and not even when she first raised the subject.
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I think it is very possible that Vixen believes every word she writes here, regardless of obvious contradictions. This is what has made the threads so mind numbingly long. She does not seem to have the capacity to recognize that she has ever posted incorrect information.
 
Vixen said:
How many times have I told you I am not interested in personal politics and the cult of the personality? Did you not quite understand?
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This is not a "personal politics" issue. Although your cited source was Bollyn for the claim that Sweden disappeared two Egyptians, you insist that it can be found in other places. Yet the only other citations you've come up with are to a source that in turn references Bollyn and to irrelevant claims about smuggling.

Are you back to admitting that Bollyn is the authoritative source for the claim?
 
Vixen said:
<phew!> Only $900K and not $1m - $3m.



So that's all right, then.
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I let this slide at the time but since radionuclide smuggling keeps trying to break into the thread it might be worth noting that while these criminals had allegedly claimed they could get their hands on 6.5mg of californium (apparently worth $900k) what they were actually caught in possession of was a trace amount of somewhere between 0.05 and 0.1 nanogrammes. I may need to check my calculations because that seems to be worth somewhere between 7 and 14 cents.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I let this slide at the time but since radionuclide smuggling keeps trying to break into the thread it might be worth noting that while these criminals had allegedly claimed they could get their hands on 6.5mg of californium (apparently worth $900k) what they were actually caught in possession of was a trace amount of somewhere between 0.05 and 0.1 nanogrammes. I may need to check my calculations because that seems to be worth somewhere between 7 and 14 cents.
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Cash money? :eye-poppi
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I let this slide at the time but since radionuclide smuggling keeps trying to break into the thread it might be worth noting that while these criminals had allegedly claimed they could get their hands on 6.5mg of californium (apparently worth $900k) what they were actually caught in possession of was a trace amount of somewhere between 0.05 and 0.1 nanogrammes. I may need to check my calculations because that seems to be worth somewhere between 7 and 14 cents.
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I get between 0.7 and 1.4 cents.

Is that enough to hire a track-laying submarine with blank torpedoes and a crew of Spetsnaz explosives experts? Sometimes you can find surprisingly good Groupon deals.
 
Myriad said:
I get between 0.7 and 1.4 cents.

Is that enough to hire a track-laying submarine with blank torpedoes and a crew of Spetsnaz explosives experts? Sometimes you can find surprisingly good Groupon deals.
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It's the principle of the thing. Once you let one smuggle slide it opens the flood gates.
 
Reformed Offlian said:
Wasting another poster's time with a bunch of irrelevant stuff that doesn't answer his question is not a "good deed". Nor is pointing out said irrelevance a punishment.

Who, independently from Bollyn, says that the Egyptians were forceably disappeared, in violation of the Rome Statute on enforced disappearance?
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I said I would come back to you and now I have:

Re Sven Anér

12/20/11 The ESTONIA mystery can suddenly clear up!

To the Minister of Infrastructure Catharina Elmsäter. Sword, and for urgent information TT!

From Svenska Dagbladet 20.12.11 page 18:

When two human organizations wanted to map the CIA's secret air transports of suspected terrorists in the world, they asked 28 countries for information. Sweden is one of only three countries that directly refuses to provide information.

A high-profile CIA flight concerns the plane that transported the Egyptians Mohammad Alzery and Ahmed Agiza from Bromma to Egypt in December 2001, where they were then tortured in prison.

Caroline Karlsson, political expert at the Minister of Infrastructure Catharina Elmsäter-Svärd (m), states security and personal integrity as reasons why the information has not been provided.

The matter is apparently much more serious than that, and there is a possibility that headlight lighting on another and much larger CIA snatch, namely 9, possibly 10, Estonian crew members from the 1994 crashed ESTONIA which flew with two American aircraft in connection with the sinking to the west .

These sensational information are openly available at the Swedish Civil Aviation Administration Arlanda, information manager Jan Lindkvist, and they have never been denied, only silenced. The information is extensively referenced and commented on in

Lena and Sven Anér. MAYDAY - a novel about the fate of ESTONIA, Bokskogen 2004. Pages 44 ff. The book is attached.

The book is written in fictional form, but all the facts about the CIA affair are factual and correctly reproduced.

I have worked since 1994 and until today with intensive attempts to make the matter known (government, authorities, all major media, etc.) but the opposition has been total: in print, MAYDAY should be unique in this context.

My own conclusion in the case is that the nine, possibly ten Estonian crew members, who were first declared rescued, then missing (!) Were subjected to this "snatch" by the CIA because they had "dangerous" information. The matter is of constant concern in Estonia, where an association seeks to safeguard the interests of the survivors.

If this enormous matter is finally really investigated by the Swedish government, in my firm opinion, the mystery of ESTONIA would quickly approach a solution.

I urge the Swedish government to answer the two research international organizations and provide full information about this CIA's perhaps biggest "snatch" ever, all categories. So far silenced by the official Sweden.

Sven Anér, Karlsrogatan 85 A, 752 39 Uppsala. 018-15 12 79.
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Sven Anér Palme Mordet
 
Vixen said:
I said I would come back to you and now I have:

Re Sven Anér

12/20/11 The ESTONIA mystery can suddenly clear up!

To the Minister of Infrastructure Catharina Elmsäter. Sword, and for urgent information TT!

From Svenska Dagbladet 20.12.11 page 18:

When two human organizations wanted to map the CIA's secret air transports of suspected terrorists in the world, they asked 28 countries for information. Sweden is one of only three countries that directly refuses to provide information.

A high-profile CIA flight concerns the plane that transported the Egyptians Mohammad Alzery and Ahmed Agiza from Bromma to Egypt in December 2001, where they were then tortured in prison.

Caroline Karlsson, political expert at the Minister of Infrastructure Catharina Elmsäter-Svärd (m), states security and personal integrity as reasons why the information has not been provided.

The matter is apparently much more serious than that, and there is a possibility that headlight lighting on another and much larger CIA snatch, namely 9, possibly 10, Estonian crew members from the 1994 crashed ESTONIA which flew with two American aircraft in connection with the sinking to the west .

These sensational information are openly available at the Swedish Civil Aviation Administration Arlanda, information manager Jan Lindkvist, and they have never been denied, only silenced. The information is extensively referenced and commented on in

Lena and Sven Anér. MAYDAY - a novel about the fate of ESTONIA, Bokskogen 2004. Pages 44 ff. The book is attached.

The book is written in fictional form, but all the facts about the CIA affair are factual and correctly reproduced.

I have worked since 1994 and until today with intensive attempts to make the matter known (government, authorities, all major media, etc.) but the opposition has been total: in print, MAYDAY should be unique in this context.

My own conclusion in the case is that the nine, possibly ten Estonian crew members, who were first declared rescued, then missing (!) Were subjected to this "snatch" by the CIA because they had "dangerous" information. The matter is of constant concern in Estonia, where an association seeks to safeguard the interests of the survivors.

If this enormous matter is finally really investigated by the Swedish government, in my firm opinion, the mystery of ESTONIA would quickly approach a solution.

I urge the Swedish government to answer the two research international organizations and provide full information about this CIA's perhaps biggest "snatch" ever, all categories. So far silenced by the official Sweden.

Sven Anér, Karlsrogatan 85 A, 752 39 Uppsala. 018-15 12 79.
Click to expand...
Sven Anér Palme Mordet
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What was your source for the claim that the Swedish government disappeared the two Egyptians, and that this was confirmed to have happened by court decisions (you initially specified the ECHR)?

Because that clearly ain’t it.
 
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