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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

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In other news we can add to the list of things Vixen does not understand:

Sonar
Radar
Nuclear materials of any sort
Fuel rods
Explosives
 
Vixen said:
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The hospital list adds up to (104 Finnish hospitals + 45 Swedish) = 149.

It explains this by saying some transferred from Finland to Sweden. However, surely that patient would not be listed as a survivor twice?
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Indeed, surely not. That's a perfectly sensible explanation. A person treated in more than one hospital is not two survivors. That's just you trying to sow seeds of confusion.
 
Vixen said:
The CIA list has been posted here before.

Try the following: see for example, ”smugglers with radioactive Califonium 235 – arrested Germany and Finland – Nucleonics Week, 2 Sept 1993.

’28-kilogram lead container of Caesium-137 onto a ferry…’ Estonia Arrests Swedes who had Radioactive Material – Reuters 9 July 1993.
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Linky or stinky.
 
Vixen said:
Because these items were commonly intercepted at Finnish and Swedish Customs during that era.

Well,, well, JAIC star witness AB Silve Linde jailed for nine years just two years later...for drug smuggling.
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Evasion noted.

You haven't read the Russian newspaper claims, you're just quoting some reference to them third-hand from some other unnamed source and your "proof" of these items being smuggled is some other case of some other contraband being smuggled on some other occasion.

Underwhelming.
 
Vixen said:
It got through ...when it was too late.

Helsinki Radio - the official conveyors of the mayday to the Marine Rescue Coordination Centres - didn't get the mayday alert on Estonia's behalf to MRCC Stockholm until 01:48, the same moment Estonia was completely sunk.

OK maybe you don't think a Mayday is particularly urgent...
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The Mayday calls were received by 14 ship and shore-based radio stations.

Silja Europa, Anette, Antares, Silja Symphony, Mariella, MRSC Turku and Turku Radio received the fist mayday broadcast at 01:20
They along with 7 other ships and stations received the second mayday.

We have the recordings and transcripts.
 
JayUtah said:
A role I specifically disavowed.
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Indeed, you did.

I would argue that the simple engineering and scientific facts simply place us in agreement. As you once said "facts are stubborn things" (yeah, I am aware of Adams). One cannot simply discard the facts/evidence and make up one's own. That is not how it works. That is not how anything works.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I'm searching your citation in vain for any reference to cobalt smuggling or to Paldiski. Perhaps you could help us by showing us where you saw it.
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I very much doubt that Vixen can do that. There is no reference to either in the link Vixen provided. But that is hardly surprising.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
The Mayday calls were received by 14 ship and shore-based radio stations.

Silja Europa, Anette, Antares, Silja Symphony, Mariella, MRSC Turku and Turku Radio received the fist mayday broadcast at 01:20
They along with 7 other ships and stations received the second mayday.

We have the recordings and transcripts.
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The Russians sure suck at radio frequency jamming.
 
Steve said:
I very much doubt that Vixen can do that. There is no reference to either in the link Vixen provided. But that is hardly surprising.
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At a guess, Vixen is attempting to build a case that this circumstantially proves Sweden must also be doing it by default.

But then, we must consider all of the claims Vixen has made. Collision with a Russian sub. Collision with a Swedish sub. Limpet mines. Torpedoes. Somehow corrosive nuclear waste. Collusion by the crew. Collusion by 7 different governments. Magic renditions (to where?). Magic radio jamming. Magic radar jamming. Magic sonar jamming (WTF?). SOSUS in the Baltic. It's a never ending list of wild, unevidenced claims.
 
abaddon said:
For anyone interested in where the origin is for the garbage Vixen posts is, have a rather long article. Worth the read though.

https://www.fairobserver.com/region...r-conspiracy-sweden-radical-right-news-14531/
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It's what I have said before, the so-called 'radical right' latch onto various protest groups or campaigns and try to make them their own, as could be seen at the recent London protests by disaparate groups of 'antivaxxers'. People with a political agenda: anarchists, neo-nazis moved in and mingled amongst them in the hope of 'agitating'; attacking the police and vandalising buildings.

Thus, the recovery of MS Estonia in book form was mobilized as a battering ram for the launch of other, more radical political messages. The Swedish radical right could capitalize on an already established conspiracy narrative serving as yet another proof of diabolic deception.
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ibid

The far left had a similar tactic with dissident miners strikers, the unemployment marches, and what have you.

It doesn't cancel out the social issues the political activists attach themselves to. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the writer/editor of this particular organ doesn't have an ulterior political agenda himself!

A lot of it is the work of disinformation agencies - many of them from Russia - I wouldn't give them any credence.
So I would take that (political activism in connection with Estonia) with a healthy pinch of salt.
 
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Vixen said:
Half the current Conservative Party int he UK used to be members of the Workers Revolutionary Party (Trotskyist/Marxist) - for example, Attorney General, Suella Bravermann
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What is your evidence for this?

Suella Braverman workers revolutionary party doesn't produce any results when I search for it.
 
Vixen said:
It was something I read in the papers but I can't find it now so have retracted it.
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there you go, relying on something you thought you read in the papers again.

Why don't you check these things before you post?
 
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