Cont: The Biden Presidency Part II

[JoeMorgue]

I'm sorry I'm not treating the idea of "far left progressives" with the appropriate respect.

*Shrugs* Prove me wrong then.

You and any random Trumper both think the system is too broken for your side to win so the only answer is tearing it down so your side can take control after the fact. You both are unconcerned bordering on gleeful at the idea of collateral damage. You both have that same "I know what I'm saying is going to get a negative response" chips on your shoulders.

The only difference is the nouns.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

*Shrugs* Prove me wrong then.

You and any random Trumper both think the system is too broken for your side to win so the only answer is tearing it down so your side can take control after the fact. You both are unconcerned bordering on gleeful at the idea of collateral damage. You both have that same "I know what I'm saying is going to get a negative response" chips on your shoulders.

The only difference is the nouns.

That's the problems with the libs. It turns out what they hated most about Trump wasn't all the awful policies, the overt racism, the open flirtation with fascism, it's just that he was so disorderly

Institutions are failing. The right wing is entrenching itself as a permanent ruling majority. The right wing has SCOTUS on lock for a lifetime. Voting isn't going to matter in the near future at this pace. Things might have to get a bit disorderly to get better. Or you can just lie back and let it happen. It'll be bad, but it'll be orderly if you don't make a fuss.

If in 2024 a coalition of liberals and progressive-far left (whatever the hell that means) throws a riot in response to some fascist authoritarian trying to steal the election, are you going to have a problem with that too?

 

[JoeMorgue]

You think hating Centrists is the same thing as having an opinion, goals, standards of your own, or a point.

Again you are exactly note for note, beat for beat, where Trumpers were at about 2 or 3 years before Trump really happened. Primed and ready.

You are just begging for some charismatic Progressive to ask you to drink the Kool-Aid.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Are you kidding? You think the legislature should pick the electors instead of the voters? No matter what the majority of the voters want? Do you really need to have the problem explained to you?

Like many right wingers, if it's legal, they think it's ok. If there was a law that allowed for lynching black people, for example, they would see no problem with lynching black people.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Like many right wingers, if it's legal, they think it's ok. If there was a law that allowed for lynching black people, for example, they would see no problem with lynching black people.

That's been their whole routine for a while. How many arguments are basically some version "Yeah we're evil, but we're doing it by the book so LOL don't hate the playa, hate the game?"

Like the cheering right now that Supreme Court probably literally just sentenced millions of Americans to death but all their legal babble lined up and that's what's really important.

 

[thaiboxerken]

That's been their whole routine for a while. How many arguments are basically some version "Yeah we're evil, but we're doing it by the book so LOL don't hate the playa, hate the game?"

Like the cheering right now that Supreme Court probably literally just sentenced millions of Americans to death but all their legal babble lined up and that's what's really important.

Yep, that's what they do. Unless the law stops them from doing something evil, then the law doesn't matter. The reality is that they do evil using any justification. Well.. these days, they don't even try to justify their evil acts quite often.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Again because the want, want so bad, to drop say the quiet part out loud.

They hate, seeth, at the fact that they have to justify their actions to a bunch of limp wristed libruls.

They full mast for the day they can finally just go "Right and wrong don't matter, I'm doing what I want and taking what I want because you can't stop me."

 

[theprestige]

And Republicans just keep refusing or undermining such because they're not getting enough in the way of kickbacks to make it worth their while?

I assume it's because nobody's getting narrowly-focused "small" infrastructure bills to a floor vote. Instead it's this multi-trillion-dollar thing, one of those "we have to pass it to see what's in it" bills.

I bet if the Dems started flooding the floor with ten-bridges-at-a-time infrastructure bills, Republicans would both find it much harder to defend opposing those bills, and find it easy enough to arrange a satisfactory horse-trading/pork-barreling/kickbacking scheme.

 

[thaiboxerken]

When Republicans sponsor a bill and then condemn that same bill as soon as the Democrats are on board, it's because of the size of the bill?

I don't buy that for a minute.

 

[BobTheCoward]

When Republicans sponsor a bill and then condemn that same bill as soon as the Democrats are on board, it's because of the size of the bill?

I don't buy that for a minute.

Which bill?

 

[JoeMorgue]

When Republicans sponsor a bill and then condemn that same bill as soon as the Democrats are on board, it's because of the size of the bill?

I don't buy that for a minute.

The people making that argument don't buy it either, it's just something they say to take the focus away from them.

Again when someone who's not wearing pants walks up and starts screaming about your fly being down, you noticing and pointing on that disparage is something they have to be counting on.

When the wrongness and the hypocrisy is that in our faces, it has to an intentional flex of some kind. They are doing it on purpose. Nobody is THAT clueless.

It's like when Mitch McConnell called Biden "not Presidential" acting 4 years of being so far up Trump's ass he could pass through customs. He didn't say that NOT expecting people to notice the inconsistency and react to it.

Same thing here. The people on this board who say one thing when the Republicans do it and a total other when the Dems do it aren't doing it hoping we won't notice or comment.

 

[johnny karate]

I assume it's because nobody's getting narrowly-focused "small" infrastructure bills to a floor vote. Instead it's this multi-trillion-dollar thing, one of those "we have to pass it to see what's in it" bills.

I bet if the Dems started flooding the floor with ten-bridges-at-a-time infrastructure bills, Republicans would both find it much harder to defend opposing those bills, and find it easy enough to arrange a satisfactory horse-trading/pork-barreling/kickbacking scheme.

Yes, exactly. Republicans just want a more narrowly-focused bill that would address their economic concerns, and then they would totally be on board.

But then again, maybe that's just a crock of ****:

Trump campaign unveils plan to spend $1 trillion on roads, bridges, and other infrastructure with no tax hikes

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You think hating Centrists is the same thing as having an opinion, goals, standards of your own, or a point.

Again you are exactly note for note, beat for beat, where Trumpers were at about 2 or 3 years before Trump really happened. Primed and ready.

You are just begging for some charismatic Progressive to ask you to drink the Kool-Aid.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Again, Trump is bad because he wants bad things. His political tactics were good. It's not even a subjective question, the proof is in how quickly and completely he has dominated the right wing political scene.

It would be good for someone on the liberal/progressive side to come along and upset the apple cart. The enthusiasm gap is huge and we have to catch up fast.

What exactly do you see as the alternative that doesn't just end where Biden is now?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

You are just begging for some charismatic Progressive to ask you to drink the Kool-Aid.

And force their horrible progressive agenda of voting rights and universal health care on the innocent populace. Exactly like Trump in every respect!

 

[theprestige]

And force their horrible progressive agenda of voting rights and universal health care on the innocent populace. Exactly like Trump in every respect!

Trump wasn't a very good conservative, or even very conservative at all. I think Joe's point is that getting an opportunistic, populist demagogue into office isn't the same as getting a principled progressive into office. And that maybe running the opportunistic, populist demagogue playbook is not a good strategy for getting a principled progressive into office.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Trump wasn't a very good conservative, or even very conservative at all. I think Joe's point is that getting an opportunistic, populist demagogue into office isn't the same as getting a principled progressive into office. And that maybe running the opportunistic, populist demagogue playbook is not a good strategy for getting a principled progressive into office.

Trump is a conclusion, not an exception. He is the natural endpoint of the course the GOP has been on since Reagan, with all semblance of cooperation stripped away until all that's left is naked venality and glowering hatred. His only failing in the eyes of conservatives is his bumbling incompetence at pretending to be anything else.

And yet he still got a slim minority of the vote, because he said what he wanted to do and he meant it.

Somehow, appearing to actually give a **** and not sit above it all is tantamount to being Trump in the eyes of the Dem establishment.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'd love to see Trump have a meltdown when pressed about Jan. 6 and his lies about the 'stolen' election. Because you know he would not be able to control himself if pressed hard enough.

His voters won't want him to control himself.

Shocking the libs and saying the quiet part out loud is big part of his appeal. I really thought we'd be done with the idea that shame would have any impact on him or his voters.

Who said anything about his followers or shame having any impact on them? Certainly not me. I know better. I don't care what his followers want or think. But a crazy meltdown with a ranting, frothing mouthed Trump might be enough for those complacents who might need a nudge to get out and vote.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I come back to this question now. What should Biden do?

Fail so you can go "I told you so."

Sadly, I think you're 100% correct on this.

 

[Venom]

I have no doubt that many in the American left will cling onto an opportunistic leftwing demagogue as Republicans did with Trump, but the MAGA base is much larger than their counterparts in the Democratic coalition.

Good thing people like SuburbanTurkey are the most "militant" you'll probably ever see in the mainstream.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I have no doubt that many in the American left will cling onto an opportunistic leftwing demagogue as Republicans did with Trump, but the MAGA base is much larger than their counterparts in the Democratic coalition.

Good thing people like SuburbanTurkey are the most "militant" you'll probably ever see in the mainstream.

"Militant" types aren't really interested in electoralism as a solution.