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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

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I must admit I'm loving the idea of Sweden having this crazy assassination unit so effective that no one knows they exits. The image of tall, good looking men hustling people into comfortable Volvo XC90, and disappearing into the night with only the quiet whir of the electric motor is some great stuff.
 
Axxman300 said:
I must admit I'm loving the idea of Sweden having this crazy assassination unit so effective that no one knows they exits. The image of tall, good looking men hustling people into comfortable Volvo XC90, and disappearing into the night with only the quiet whir of the electric motor is some great stuff.
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Then, after they've arrived back at their log-cabin hideaway, strapping their quarry into some lovely IKEA soft furniture, shining one of IKEA's FORSÅ lamps into their eyes, and interrogating them in a lilting sing-song accent with the relentless beats of electro-pop combo Ace of Base on a permanent loop in the background.
 
Axxman300 said:
I must admit I'm loving the idea of Sweden having this crazy assassination unit so effective that no one knows they exits. The image of tall, good looking men hustling people into comfortable Volvo XC90, and disappearing into the night with only the quiet whir of the electric motor is some great stuff.
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Volvo had an electric in 1994... damn, the Scandinavians are ahead of the times.
 
Axxman300 said:
Obviously using technology stolen from the Russians, and smuggled on the MS Estonia.
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Those sneaky Swedes working with the CIA to send Russian tech to America so a South African could start up the worlds biggest eclectic car company! My god think of all the thousands, maybe even tens of thousands, of tax dollar revenue we've gotten from Elon Musk in the USA that was rightfully Vlads.

I think your on to something here!
 
Reformed Offlian said:
Why would the accident be Sweden's fault? It wasn't their ship, nor their crew, nor their line. The overwhelming majority of the time a ship sinks, it's either something wrong with the ship or a mistake the crew made. Only in crazy conspiracy theories is anything Sweden's fault.

What are Germany's or Finland's governments being blamed for?
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The vessel was jointly owned by Swedish firm Nordstrom & Thule. I think it was state subsided, too. The other 50% was owned by Estlines in Estonia.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Sweden and Finland were both in part responsible because they had allowed ships to be constructed that were not compliant or certified by SOLAS. They both had domestic legislation in place at the time of the construction that exempted Roro ferries from some inspection and design requirements, as they would have been restricted to coastal work.
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I disagree with this, because Viking Sally in its reincarnation as Wasa King was only ever designed to commute between Finland and Sweden, and there was only few hours of open sea, as it always stopped at Mariehamn in the Åland Islands on the way, after which it was open sea until the Stockholm archipelago. If there are any problems, it is easy to bank the vessel at a nearby skerry. M/S Amorella on traversing a narrow band of islands actually got grounded inadvertently the other year.

When it was purchased by the Nordstrom & Thule/Estline, suddenly she was doing twelve hour journeys on open sea.

Nobody know why the vessel was belting along at 15-18 knots and failed to head for shallow waters.

The JAIC never bothered to investigate what was going on here.
 
JesseCuster said:
I'm not saying that she agrees with the reviews, I'm just pointing out that the reviews seem to be by conspiracy nutters, so whatever point she thought she might have been making by referring to the "250 positive reviews" probably isn't what she thinks it is.
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I don't have any problem people writing books about whatever they want. If they want to claim Mossad did this and Mossad did that, good luck to them. What I back away is hate speech.

This wasn't apparent on Amazon although I wonder if the 'Look Inside' facility was locked because of complaints.
 
JayUtah said:
Agreed. It's not at all difficult to find out that Christopher Bollyn is not a reliable source. Vixen seems to have considerable difficulty evaluating the reliability of her sources in a way that conveys confidence to her audience. The audience always seem to find out more about the sources than she.
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I just assumed he was another journalist.
 
Vixen said:
I just assumed he was another journalist.
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But then you were given reason to doubt that by criticism being posted here by others who did not assume who he was, and assessed his reliability on their own. Your response was to fail at Googling, fail to infer anything from reviews of the one book you saw he wrote, and then speculate that "Christopher Bollyn" was a pseudonym for a disinformationist. None of that a responsible approach to validating your sources.
 
Axxman300 said:
I must admit I'm loving the idea of Sweden having this crazy assassination unit so effective that no one knows they exits. The image of tall, good looking men hustling people into comfortable Volvo XC90, and disappearing into the night with only the quiet whir of the electric motor is some great stuff.
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There's always Wallander, based in Ystad (IIRC):

A highly-decorated Swedish naval officer, Håkan von Enke, disappears during his daily walk. For Kurt Wallander this becomes a very personal case as Von Enke is Linda Wallander's father-in-law. The clues lead back in time to the Cold War and hired killers from Eastern Europe. Inspector Wallander suspects that he may be dealing with the worst spy scandal in Swedish history. At the same time, Wallander is also dealing with the onset of dementia, and in particular, with the loss of his memory.
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wiki
 
Vixen said:
I disagree with this, because Viking Sally in its reincarnation as Wasa King was only ever designed to commute between Finland and Sweden, and there was only few hours of open sea, as it always stopped at Mariehamn in the Åland Islands on the way, after which it was open sea until the Stockholm archipelago. If there are any problems, it is easy to bank the vessel at a nearby skerry. M/S Amorella on traversing a narrow band of islands actually got grounded inadvertently the other year.

When it was purchased by the Nordstrom & Thule/Estline, suddenly she was doing twelve hour journeys on open sea.

Nobody know why the vessel was belting along at 15-18 knots and failed to head for shallow waters.

The JAIC never bothered to investigate what was going on here.
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You can disagree with it all you want, it is a fact.
Swedish and Finnish domestic legislation at the time Estonia was built allowed for Roro ferries with bow visors or doors to be exempt from SOLAS certification.

What good would heading for shallow water in a storm have done? Instead of sinking in one piece it would have been driven aground and smashed up.
When the bow fell off it was too late to head anywhere.
 
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SpitfireIX said:
In fairness to Vixen, I think she meant she assumed that with that many positive reviews, the book must have some merit. That's a naïve and foolish assumption, of course, but it doesn't mean she agrees with the sentiments expressed.
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It probably just means that she didn’t bother to read them.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
You can disagree with it all you want, it is a fact.
Swedish and Finnish domestic legislation at the time Estonia was built allowed for Roro ferries with bow visors or doors to be exempt from SOLAS certification.

What good would heading for shallow water in a storm have done? Instead of sinking in one piece it would have been driven aground and smashed up.
When the bow fell off it was too late to head anywhere.
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And to add to that - shallow waters in a storm is not a good place - wave action will be worse compared to deep waters.

What you might want to do is to find protection, for example by picking a route on the leeward side of islands when possible.

And if you want to ground a ship by purpose to avoid it to sink, you really would prefer a nice protected cove with a muddy bottom, just like what Amorella used after they had hit a rocky bottom and breached the hull.


But none of those options were available to Estonia. What they could have done was to adopt the speed to something more suitable.
 
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