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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

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Vixen said:
I did. I could find nothing on Google*. Amazon had a book of his on 9/11. There was no 'look inside' and about 250 positive reviews.

*Which makes me think it is a pseudonym.
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All you had to do was click on the main site link in the header of the page you cited. You would have seen his anti-Semitic lunacy in all its glory. Even the article at the link anchored to the words "enforced disappearances" contains at least one clear anti-Semitic slur.

You looked at the article closely enough to spot typos, read footnotes, and follow the links in those footnotes. It is possible, though not at all that likely, that you missed those other, less savory details.
 
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Vixen said:
Ah, of course that is what it was. Nothing at all was Sweden*'s fault. The radio and other telecommunications, the sonar detectors, the design of the bow visor, the crew: it was all Finland's, Germany's and Estonia's fault.

However, who were the people taken to Huddinge, Stockholm, contra to the OSC's designated points?

What is interesting in that honours list is that not even the Commander of the whole archipelago unit got the highest medal in the land (which would be the Mannerheim Cross [although, to be fair, only 191 have ever been issued], followed by the Cross of Liberty) but the third order of medals, the White Rose, albeit still extremely prestigious. To get the full list, you'd need to get the paper version of the newspaper, but I would imagine the lower ranks got the Red Lion, which generally goes to life savers and for the arts, such as writers, filmmakers and that ilk, of great works.

*When I say 'Sweden', I refer to the Swedish government of the day, not the country or its people, together with the JAIC.
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So you do think the only medal awarded by Sweden is dodgy but the ones handed out like sweets to the Finns are all ok?*

*See I can play that game too.
 
Vixen said:
Only because someone had written in huge block capitals that Bollyn was an anti-Semite, which made me wonder if it was genuine criticism or just someone out to defame him because they disagreed with his position on Israel.
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That was the headline of the article I quoted from the ADL, which is why I put it in large type, just as it is on the their website. Frankly, if you'd paid more attention to my post you might have realized that, and you also would have answered your own question about who was accusing him of antisemitism.
 
Vixen said:
So what happened to the Estonians initially listed as survivors?
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They died, Vixen. On the night of the disaster. They died, either because they went down with the ship, or because they drowned or froze to death in the open waters of the Baltic Sea.

There was initial confusion and misinformation about who had been rescued and who had not. This sort of thing happens in virtually every single disaster of this type. It happened, for example, to a very significant extent in the 9/11 attacks.

You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
How on earth did you not find anything on google? The 6th result is the ADL describing, in detail, his lunatic claims.

ETA: If you search for Christopher Bollyn anti-semite all the results expose his insanity.
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Looks like Vixen's world-class research skills have massively let her down. Once again.
 
Vixen said:
Ah, of course that is what it was. Nothing at all was Sweden*'s fault. The radio and other telecommunications, the sonar detectors, the design of the bow visor, the crew: it was all Finland's, Germany's and Estonia's fault.
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Still employing the gambit of using sarcastic hyperbole to try to deflect from the shortcomings in your own crackpot theories eh, Vixen?



However, who were the people taken to Huddinge, Stockholm, contra to the OSC's designated points?
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What of it? And as you've already been told, the role of the OSC was strictly - and solely - to ensure that rescue/recovery efforts at the scene (that's the "S" in OSC....) were co-ordinated properly (to try to ensure the minimum of wasted or duplicated effort, and to stop rescuers getting in each other's way). Once the rescue vessels/aircraft were no longer in the immediate vicinity of the scene, they were no longer under the direction (much less the control) of the OSC. It was then entirely up to them where they went and why they went there.



What is interesting in that honours list is that not even the Commander of the whole archipelago unit got the highest medal in the land (which would be the Mannerheim Cross [although, to be fair, only 191 have ever been issued], followed by the Cross of Liberty) but the third order of medals, the White Rose, albeit still extremely prestigious. To get the full list, you'd need to get the paper version of the newspaper, but I would imagine the lower ranks got the Red Lion, which generally goes to life savers and for the arts, such as writers, filmmakers and that ilk, of great works.

*When I say 'Sweden', I refer to the Swedish government of the day, not the country or its people, together with the JAIC.
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So the part you preface by claiming "what is interesting..." is not in fact interesting in the slightest. Nor even noteworthy. And by the way, there's a difference between a) acting as an efficient and exemplary OSC (as laudable an achievement as that truly is) and b) exhibiting personal bravery and physical effort in adversity.
 
Vixen said:
Ah, of course that is what it was. Nothing at all was Sweden*'s fault. The radio and other telecommunications, the sonar detectors, the design of the bow visor, the crew: it was all Finland's, Germany's and Estonia's fault.
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Why would the accident be Sweden's fault? It wasn't their ship, nor their crew, nor their line. The overwhelming majority of the time a ship sinks, it's either something wrong with the ship or a mistake the crew made. Only in crazy conspiracy theories is anything Sweden's fault.

What are Germany's or Finland's governments being blamed for?
 
Vixen said:
I did. I could find nothing on Google*.
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When I Google "Christopher Bollyn", the 2nd result is to an article on the ADL website about him being an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist.

You suck at researching.

Amazon had a book of his on 9/11. There was no 'look inside' and about 250 positive reviews.
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Why did you mention his book has 250 positive reviews? Trying to rehabilitate him as a source?

Here's some choice quotes from the first page of those "positive reviews":

"Cheney said there was never any evidence of Osama bin Laden's involvement and no arrest warrent was issued in relation to "9-11". "

"Yitzhak Rabin was in Dallas TX on the day of President Kennedy's assassination (1963). In 1967 he was the Israeli Defence Forces's (IDF) Chief of Staff."

"Anyone who has seen the `Loose Change' documentary, especially the 2nd edition, will know that 9-11 was an inside job. "

"Bollyn is almost alone among 9/11 researchers in that he squarely identifies an international cabal of Zionist politicians, spooks, and businessmen as the planners and managers of the world's most dramatic act of state-sponsored terrorism. "

Positive reviews from truther idiots and anti-semites.
 
Vixen said:
I did. I could find nothing on Google*. Amazon had a book of his on 9/11. There was no 'look inside' and about 250 positive reviews.

*Which makes me think it is a pseudonym.
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Do you agree with the comments in those "positive" reviews?
 
In fairness to Vixen, I think she meant she assumed that with that many positive reviews, the book must have some merit. That's a naïve and foolish assumption, of course, but it doesn't mean she agrees with the sentiments expressed.
 
JesseCuster said:
When I Google "Christopher Bollyn"...
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Keep in mind that Google search results are not ordered the same for everyone. It's based in large part on what information Google has collected about you from past searches. So while information about Bollyn's anti-Semitic activities may land high on your search and mine, it may not have for Vixen. That said, when I search anonymously on Google, I still get references to his anti-Semitic position on page 1 of the search.

Why did you mention his book has 250 positive reviews?
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I assume there are at least 250 other anti-Semites and related folk.
 
Reformed Offlian said:
Why would the accident be Sweden's fault? It wasn't their ship, nor their crew, nor their line. The overwhelming majority of the time a ship sinks, it's either something wrong with the ship or a mistake the crew made. Only in crazy conspiracy theories is anything Sweden's fault.

What are Germany's or Finland's governments being blamed for?
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Sweden and Finland were both in part responsible because they had allowed ships to be constructed that were not compliant or certified by SOLAS. They both had domestic legislation in place at the time of the construction that exempted Roro ferries from some inspection and design requirements, as they would have been restricted to coastal work.
 
SpitfireIX said:
In fairness to Vixen, I think she meant she assumed that with that many positive reviews, the book must have some merit. That's a naïve and foolish assumption, of course, but it doesn't mean she agrees with the sentiments expressed.
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I'm not saying that she agrees with the reviews, I'm just pointing out that the reviews seem to be by conspiracy nutters, so whatever point she thought she might have been making by referring to the "250 positive reviews" probably isn't what she thinks it is.
 
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JayUtah said:
Keep in mind that Google search results are not ordered the same for everyone. It's based in large part on what information Google has collected about you from past searches. So while information about Bollyn's anti-Semitic activities may land high on your search and mine, it may not have for Vixen.
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True, but Vixen has made great hay out of her supposed research skills, so it's weird to see that she is apparently unable to find information that's so readily available online to others.
 
JesseCuster said:
True, but Vixen has made great hay out of her supposed research skills, so it's weird to see that she is apparently unable to find information that's so readily available online to others.
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Agreed. It's not at all difficult to find out that Christopher Bollyn is not a reliable source. Vixen seems to have considerable difficulty evaluating the reliability of her sources in a way that conveys confidence to her audience. The audience always seem to find out more about the sources than she.
 
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