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Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

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johnny karate said:
Why do you think you can't seem to substantiate your claim?
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You've no idea why Carano rapidly went from playing a character likely to become the lead of Rangers of the New Republic to looking for work? Not even a guess? I'm guessing it's obvious to most of us who have been following the posts about her here.
 
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d4m10n said:
You've no idea why Carano rapidly went from playing a character likely to become the lead of Rangers of the New Republic to looking for work? Not even a guess? I'm guessing it's obvious to most of us who have been following the posts about her here.
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Probably has something to do with spitting into her employer's face, metaphorically speaking. Popular hollywood actors have more job security than most working stiffs, but The Mouse is a strict taskmaster.
 
My opinion is that Gina Carano wasn’t given the role because she was asked to modify her social media engagement habits, agreed, and then didn’t and Disney didn’t feel that giving a lead role to someone who can’t do what she says she will isn’t a good idea.

I don’t think it had anything to do with activists. Besides, Gina Carano is such a poor example of cancel culture anyway. It wasn’t a past tweet or internet post taken out of context against a powerless individual who regrets their actions in a different era of the internet. It was backlash against an unapologetic, entitled conspiracy theorist spreading misinformation and lies on a PR platform in real time that was given multiple chances to change their behavior but risked the mild consequences anyway.
 
It’s amazing how quickly the American right turns rabidly against Capitalism when market forces fail to favor them in even tiny ways
 
d4m10n said:
The activists disagree.
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That seems like a biased source.

I’m going to pray all night that the sun will rise in the morning. If it does I’ll claim full credit. If it doesn’t I will take full blame. All to prove the power of my personal prayers.
 
dirtywick said:
they’re wrong
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You've provided us with no reason to conclude they are wrong, but (for the sake of argument) let's suppose their coordinated efforts at cancellation only seemed to succeed because the firing coincidentally followed after the demands. Would that make their subsequent celebration of cancellation less of a fact about culture, in your view?

Dr. Keith said:
That seems like a biased source.
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Perhaps so, but I'm willing to give the "people behind the #FireGinaCarano movement" the credit they claim is due. If you know of a better source (perhaps one more in touch with millennial culture and social norms) which covers these issues, I'm perfectly happy to take it into consideration.

In tangentially related news, I came across this fascinating passage in my reading just this morning:

As the work of Jon Ronson and others on 'public shaming' has shown, the internet has allowed new forms of activism and bullying in the guise of social activism to become the tenor of the time. The urge to find people who can be accused of 'wrong-think' works because it rewards the bully. The social media companies encourage it because it is part of their business model. But rarely if ever do the people in the stampede try to work out why they are running in the direction they are.

We have had to try to learn how to live in a world where at any moment we may be speaking to one other person or to millions around the world. The notion of private and public space has eroded.

Difficult and contentious issues demand a great amount of thought. And a great amount of thought often necessitates trying things out (including making inevitable errors). Yet to think aloud on the issues which are most controversial has become such a high risk that on a simple risk/reward ratio there is almost no point in anyone taking it.

Although a variety of thinkers have set a certain amount of weather, the ferocious winds of the present do not come from academic philosophy or social science departments. They emanate from social media. It is there that assumptions are embedded. It is there that attempts to weigh up facts can be repackaged as moral transgressions or even acts of violence.
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From The Madness of Crowds by Douglas Murray.
 
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d4m10n said:
You've provided us with no reason to conclude they are wrong, but (for the sake of argument) let's suppose their coordinated efforts at cancellation only seemed to succeed because the firing coincidentally followed after the demands. Would that make their subsequent celebration of cancellation less of a fact about culture, in your view?
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A coordinated effort? Gina Carano wouldn’t stop pissing off tons of fans on social media even after Disney warned her it would cost her job. I don’t care who claims credit for that, but nobody forced her to do that. People wanted that and were happy it happened because she was being an *******, but she did all that on her own.

So unless they coordinated that with her, they’re wrong
 
Really loving the idea that a TV studio firing an actor after they refused an explicit warning to stop intentionally alienating the audience of a popular and expensive show is an example of some novel phenomena rather than the normal course of show business since forever.

The Mouse payed a lot of money for Star Wars and is trying to make a return on that investment by making these shows as popular with as many people as possible. Dumping an actor who is intentionally seeding ill will in the general public is the obvious solution.
 
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"Coordinated effort" is another one those scare terms that I'm totally failing to grasp what I'm supposed to be so bothered by.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Really loving the idea that a TV studio firing an actor after they refused an explicit warning to stop intentionally alienating the audience of a popular and expensive show is an example of some novel phenomena rather than the normal course of show business since forever.
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Again it's just the "wrong" people winning the social battles that have people up in arms.

Nothing more. It's never been about anything more than that.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again it's just the "wrong" people winning the social battles that have people up in arms.

Nothing more. It's never been about anything more than that.
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I get that, but even 50 years ago an outspoken, easily replaceable actor would have been canned for similar behavior. These studios have no interest in fighting pointless culture wars, they want to make money from everyone. They aren't on anyone's side.
 
Well, and we are poking hard at the edges of a very big discussion I think society is WAY overdue for, we as a society only discuss social interactions in one context and on one level and that context and level is the absolute least useful for actual social change.

I don't want to broaden the discussion too much, and this is something I've been trying to find an angle of approach to start a discourse about for a long while now, but we can only talk about stuff in the context of social contracts; what laws, civility, politeness, social standards, etc can MAKE you do and that's... not actually a lot of social interactions.

The vast, vast, vast majority of social interacts are just voluntarily deciding whether or not to engage with other people outside of any social contract and we never talk about that because we don't have a framework for it.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Really loving the idea that a TV studio firing an actor after they refused an explicit warning to stop intentionally alienating the audience of a popular and expensive show is an example of some novel phenomena rather than the normal course of show business since forever.

The Mouse payed a lot of money for Star Wars and is trying to make a return on that investment by making these shows as popular with as many people as possible. Dumping an actor who is intentionally seeding ill will in the general public is the obvious solution.
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It’s not as bad as referring to people disliking the content a comedian was paid to produce as censorship.
 
My favorite canceling was the CPAC conference against cancel culture canceling Young Pharaoh for stating some less than popular opinions. Ah the hypocrisy is so strong, let if flow through you on the right!
 
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