This.
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AP News: "Let's go, Brandon" is really code for "**** Joe Biden"
- Thread starter theprestige
- Start date
This.
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
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- 18,095
The idea that 'don't feed the trolls, you won't change their mind anyway' misses the point on several levels.
First, as Suddenly pointed out, many are just not trolls. They're advancing a movement in many cases.
Second, as many have noted, you don't have to feed trolls for them to keep going.
However the most important point I'd argue is that changing their minds isn't even a primary goal of engaging trolls and people who seem to be trolls. That is an absolutely false metric. It is the same false conclusion people get from various studies about how evidence doesn't 'change people's minds'. If it even just deters them from posting in every space because they don't want to deal with backlash, that's good. Better, more likely, and a good in and of itself is keeping minds. The lurker might be on the fence and seeing that a given idea does indeed have opposition works for the true as well as the false. Bringing people to your side, hopefully the evidenced side, is a win. Keeping people from embracing the false side is a win. Keeping people who are already on your side from being discouraged and starting to think it isn't worth the personal social cost it is a win. Just making them feel like they aren't alone is a win. Some get exhausted, and keeping them is worth it.
I agree with the concerns about spreading anti-reality ideas by addressing them, but that just requires a change of tactics, not abandonment.
First, as Suddenly pointed out, many are just not trolls. They're advancing a movement in many cases.
Second, as many have noted, you don't have to feed trolls for them to keep going.
However the most important point I'd argue is that changing their minds isn't even a primary goal of engaging trolls and people who seem to be trolls. That is an absolutely false metric. It is the same false conclusion people get from various studies about how evidence doesn't 'change people's minds'. If it even just deters them from posting in every space because they don't want to deal with backlash, that's good. Better, more likely, and a good in and of itself is keeping minds. The lurker might be on the fence and seeing that a given idea does indeed have opposition works for the true as well as the false. Bringing people to your side, hopefully the evidenced side, is a win. Keeping people from embracing the false side is a win. Keeping people who are already on your side from being discouraged and starting to think it isn't worth the personal social cost it is a win. Just making them feel like they aren't alone is a win. Some get exhausted, and keeping them is worth it.
I agree with the concerns about spreading anti-reality ideas by addressing them, but that just requires a change of tactics, not abandonment.
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alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
(LGB) is just about as clever and childish a comment as "That's what she said!"
(cue Beavis and Butthead laugh)
(cue Beavis and Butthead laugh)
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
- Joined
- May 9, 2006
- Messages
- 29,691
The fundamental problem with trolls is that we've culturally abandoned the notion of "Fighting words", that is, the notion that saying something so egregiously awful to or about someone is tantamount to agreeing to fight them, outside the bounds of the normal laws.
There'd be a lot less of this if even a few of these people got beat down because they called someone a pedophile based on some nonsense internet CT.
But alas, if you advocate for such things in this day and age, the pearl clutchers will get all in a tizzy about how you're "just as bad as them!"
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
I think there's a distinction between an internet troll and a 'true believer' such as Suddenly mentioned. I've seen both here on ISF.The true believer is usually sincere in his beliefs and wants to present them; the troll seldom contributes anything of substance but posts primarily smart arse remarks and his comments are clearly intended to get a rise out of others. The true believer should be engaged but the internet troll is only out for attention.
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Well I'll keep screwing the trolls and the people who don't like it can just magically ignore me like I'm supposed to do with the trolls.
Trolls, True Believers, Poes, whatever. They are all dragging the intellectual standards down and in case nobody is paying attention they are already on life support.
Trolls, True Believers, Poes, whatever. They are all dragging the intellectual standards down and in case nobody is paying attention they are already on life support.
Suddenly
No Punting
I did say I think ignoring the Trolls is fine but what I left out is that artfully mocking them is so much better.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
By engaging the trolls, you are complicit in 'dragging the intellectual standards down'. We get page after page of responses to an "I'm gonna intentionally trigger the libs with some stupid remark" troll post. I can think of one poster in particular who is quite adept at this kind of manipulation.
There are some people who just enjoy confrontation and arguing and they can be either the troll or the responder.
Again at the end of the day I will always be the person who when your grandmother is screaming that Cousin Timmy ruined Thanksgiving because he brought his black girlfriend knowing how Uncle John was going to react while be to tell grandma to shut up and yell at Uncle John for being racist, not yell at Cousin Timmy for not being accommodating enough about it. Grandma not getting the Uncle John is the one ruining Thanksgiving, not Cousin Timmy is a big part of how we got here.
I do not accept any version of morality or civility or similar that gives the wrong side all the volition and the good side to be passive and accommodating.
I do not accept any version of morality or civility or similar that gives the wrong side all the volition and the good side to be passive and accommodating.
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
Not that I'm not enjoying idiot boy having his life ruined. He's just a Trump supporter so his life doesn't count for anything. Trump supporters aren't really people the exist to have their misery amuse humans. That said, If I was on the phone with Trump, I'd have told him that the world would have been a better place if the wild pig had ********** ******** felthched his mom ********* instead of ******** that night behind the dumpster when he was spawned after the union of a wild boar and a whore.
If only Fred Trump had paid for one more abortion. What a better world we'd live in.
If only Fred Trump had paid for one more abortion. What a better world we'd live in.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
I'd love to have a chance to tell Trump what I think of him (which closely aligns with your opinion), but not in front of my school age child on a call about Santa Claus.
Like anyone buys into this virtue-signaling, lol.
Like a hyper-partisan Dem's school-age children wouldn't have likely heard a lot worse political commentary at home?
Give me a break.
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At least this guy has the balls to be honest with himself and everyone else.
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
I wouldn't say that in front of children. I also wouldn't let children talk to Trump.
Sensitive extremists are my favorite.
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TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
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- 35,043
"Ignoring the trolls" betrays a sort of wishful thinking that this virulent strain of right wing thought is something that can simply be ignored.
The "Let's go Brandon" people in this world are part of the most effective, vibrant, and focused political project in this country and it's not even a close contest. Ignore them if you can, but they are wielding powers that is going to make that very, very difficult. Whether you like it or not, this strain of idiocy is all our problem, it's not just your drunk uncle, it's people wielding real power to negatively impact everyone's lives in a very extreme way. The rabid right wing has ceased being an amusing/horrific side show a long time ago.
It's easy to ignore a toddler babbling, it's less easy when that toddler has a shotgun and is pawing at the trigger.
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
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Of course, none of us would have called in to speak to Trump on such a phone call. Who the hell would want to talk to Trump about Christmas and Santa Claus?
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
- Joined
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I would.
I think I’d ask “Your heroic effort to win the war on Christmas cannot be overstated. I think your work in this area is perhaps even more important than the Christmas message itself. Would you agree that what you did is that important?” When President Chucklehead agreed, I’d follow up with “so if you believe your work is more important than Christianity’s message of salvation Then it is safe to say that you are not a Christian, right?”
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Who the hell would want to talk to Biden about Christmas and Santa Claus?