Lincoln Project is producing good propaganda again

Cain said:
A problem with conservatism, whatever that means, is that there has not been an emphasis on popular elections. David Frum: "When conservatives come to believe they can't win democratically they won't abandon conservatism, they'll reject democracy."

We've seen the groundwork for years starting with that trope, "We're not a democracy; we're a republic!" Gerrymandering, the Senate, the filibuster, the Electoral College. Meanwhile, Democrats in Blue states (voters, not politicians and party flaks) have supported independent commissions for drawing district lines. Unilaterally disarming shows a commitment to these basic principles. Conservative activists have responded by welcoming barriers to voting, and now there's the threat of state legislators refusing to certify delegates in a presidential election. Great. Maybe we have someone as president who loses the popular vote and the Electoral College. Make America Great Again.

All for what? This wannabe Tangerine Tyrant? Talk about grift. He's gonna build a wall and get Mexico to pay for it. Because this is "a Flight 93 Election" and he "knows" how to win. That's another thing that triggers me. Republicans claiming they're terrible at playing politics, envious of Dems who "know how to fight dirty." What?? Whose side is Mcconnell on? (According to Tucker, he's "an instrument of the left"). Can't have a cuck like Romney. The guy accepted his loss. What an ass.

Conservatives need to locate and prioritize a philosophical principle that enshrines popular elections.
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The problem that conservatives are blind to is being anti-democratic and succeeding is like succeeding at grabbing the tiger's tail. You can't let go or the tiger will eat you. And you can't hold on either.

Trump turned on pretty much everyone who has ever had the temerity to challenge Trump on anything. The only principle is just how far up Trump's ass can you get your tongue. This is just like Putin in Russia.
 
well, like so many authoritarians, they think they can "restore" democracy in their own imagine once they broke it to get into power.
like when you have to share your house with some relatives you don't like, so you burn it down with them in it and then rebuild the way you always wanted.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
well, like so many authoritarians, they think they can "restore" democracy in their own imagine once they broke it to get into power.
like when you have to share your house with some relatives you don't like, so you burn it down with them in it and then rebuild the way you always wanted.
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Exactly. Conservative dictators in practice act exactly like Liberal dictators. The difference between Franco and Ceausescu or Castro and Robespierre.
 
acbytesla said:
Exactly. Conservative dictators in practice act exactly like Liberal dictators. The difference between Franco and Ceausescu or Castro and Robespierre.
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True. All dictators, no matter what their beginning philosophy was, eventually have only one goal: to maintain power.
 
Ziggurat said:
The truth of that statement is irrelevant to the observation that the Lincoln Project is not conservative.
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it is if you think that Trump is more conservative than the Lincoln Project.
you seem to agree that US conservatism today is a big pile of ****.
 
Ziggurat said:
The truth of that statement is irrelevant to the observation that the Lincoln Project is not conservative.
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You're right. It is irrelevant.

The point is if people think that Trump is a conservative and members of the Lincoln Project are not the term is meaningless.
 
Ziggurat said:
I already said I don't think Trump is conservative. Why are you still hung up on that?



You're batting 0 for 2.
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so your argument is that people who oppose Trump, who you agree is not a conservative, are not conservatives, but the people who DO support Trump are.

Care to rethink that?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
so your argument is that people who oppose Trump, who you agree is not a conservative, are not conservatives, but the people who DO support Trump are.

Care to rethink that?
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Why are you incapable of discussing something without using straw men? I never claimed everyone who supports Trump is conservative.
 
Stacyhs said:
So now we're going to spend the next several pages debating what 'conservative' is?
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Apparently some people are confused about what it means, so yeah.

We have people insisting Trump isn't conservative, despite all the evidence. And we have people saying members of the Lincoln Project are not conservative.

But I am am more interested in why they are saying this. The obvious reason is that it puts conservatism in a bad light, which puts them in the uncomfortable position of having to disown it. But it would be unfair to accuse anyone of such a deplorable stance without evidence. Therefore I have to assume they are just 'confused'.
 
Warp12 said:
Apparently it just means "bad people who don't think like me", in this liberal snake pit.
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Nonsense. I was a political science major. The terms liberal and conservative or left and right use to have meaning. Now they are labels without any inherent definitions.

I hate the terms as people use them without reference points.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Apparently some people are confused about what it means, so yeah.

We have people insisting Trump isn't conservative, despite all the evidence. And we have people saying members of the Lincoln Project are not conservative.

But I am am more interested in why they are saying this. The obvious reason is that it puts conservatism in a bad light, which puts them in the uncomfortable position of having to disown it. But it would be unfair to accuse anyone of such a deplorable stance without evidence. Therefore I have to assume they are just 'confused'.
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What evidence?
 
acbytesla said:
...The terms liberal and conservative or left and right use to have meaning. Now they are labels without any inherent definitions...
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I agree. I don't think the usual political definitions apply to trump. According to the linked Guardian article in another thread -- "'America is now in fascism's legal phase' Guardian long form article" -- trump is
...a ruthless would-be autocrat [who] has marshalled these fascist forces and shaped them into a cult, with him as its leader.
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That definition seems to fit very well. A ruthless would-be autocrat? Sounds on point. :(
 
No true conservatives.

An organization made up of semi-powerful members of the conservative movement with the expressed purpose of changing the direction of the conservative movement away from very non-conservative ideas is...well it's conservative organization. 'But it doesn't talk about tax cuts!' So? Not every group or organization has to deal with every element of whatever greater cause or movement they are under to be still under it. This is the entire 'if BLM cared about black lives...' excuse all over again, ignoring that the same people active in BLM movements are also active in other groups addressing things like cleaning parks, fighting addiction, doing job fairs, opposing gangs, etc.
 
I thought that a core conservative ideal was to pick your representatives for their moral character, not for electoral expediency.
 
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