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Discussion: Transwomen are not women (Part 7)

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Not sure if this has been mentioned here or elsewhere or is really relevant, but…

A trans woman is currently doing quite well on the TV quiz show Jeopardy.

51763182983_867aae7996.jpg


She’s apparently not the first, but I didn’t have a clue until she mentioned her “girlfriend” and I looked her up.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned here or elsewhere or is really relevant, but…

A trans woman is currently doing quite well on the TV quiz show Jeopardy.

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51763182983_867aae7996.jpg[/qimg]

She’s apparently not the first, but I didn’t have a clue until she mentioned her “girlfriend” and I looked her up.
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It's relevant in the same way chess is relevant. You wouldn't expect a purely cerebral* competition to reveal sexual disparity, but here we are.
 
theprestige said:
One thing we've been asking for repeatedly (though not lately) in this thread is any kind of scientific support for prescribing social transition as a good treatment for the mental health problems that trans people face.
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Social transitioning is not something that is prescribed. It is just something some people do, often before they get access to any professional treatment.
 
Earthborn said:
Social transitioning is not something that is prescribed. It is just something some people do, often before they get access to any professional treatment.
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Well that certainly explains why there's no scientific data about its necessity or efficacy.

On the other hand, that leaves trans-activists with the rather awkward problem of having no scientific data about its necessity or efficacy. Trans identity is lookin more and more analogous with fursonas every day. Keep this up, and we'll conclude that transwomen should be entitled to all the rights, privileges, accommodations, and common courtesy as furries.
 
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theprestige said:
Trans identity is lookin more and more analogous with fursonas every day.
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A fursona is not an identity. Furries do not claim they are the animal they like to roleplay as. I think you are confusing furries with "otherkin", people who claim to have the soul of an animal born in the body of a human. There may be some overlap between furries and otherkin, but they are not the same. Most furries are not otherkin, and most otherkin are not furries.

Keep this up, and we'll conclude that transwomen should be entitled to all the rights, privileges, accommodations, and common courtesy as furries.
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Not sure what you think the rights are that furries have that transwomen lack, but yes equal rights would indeed be nice.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It doesn't match the reality that trans people face tremendous stigma and vicious bullying, discrimination, and outright hate crimes at alarming levels.

Any talk of "acknowledging reality" must account for the plain fact that trans people face intense bigotry in their day to day life, and that "separate but equal" has an extremely poor track record in such contexts.
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First off, nobody is actually talking about removing "separate but equal". This isn't about "separate but equal". Trans activists for the most part WANT "separate but equal".

They just want to be able to choose which side of the "separate" line they get to be on.

Second, in the past you've claimed that opposition to allowing transwomen into female-only spaces is based on hysteria unsupported by data. I would counter that with noting that your own position is unsupported by data. Yes, there is data that shows trans people have all these bad outcomes. But where's the data that the specific policy changes you're advocating (which in many cases have been implemented) actually make any improvement? I don't think you have any such data. I think you are no more data driven than your opponents.
 
Earthborn said:
Not sure what you think the rights are that furries have that transwomen lack, but yes equal rights would indeed be nice.
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You rather missed the point there, which is precisely that furries don't have any special rights, and that's OK.
 
Ziggurat said:
Trans activists for the most part WANT "separate but equal".
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For the most part, they are fine with getting rid of it.

They just want to be able to choose which side of the "separate" line they get to be on.
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Or rather, continue to be able to do so.

But where's the data that the specific policy changes you're advocating (which in many cases have been implemented) actually make any improvement?
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These aren't policy changes, in many cases they have been implemented for decades. At most they are clarifications of existing policy.

It is rather tricky to find data comparing different policies when only one policy has existed. It is up to those who want to change policy to show the need for it; that is those who want a policy banning transwomen from women's facilities.
 
Earthborn said:
A fursona is not an identity. Furries do not claim they are the animal they like to roleplay as. I think you are confusing furries with "otherkin", people who claim to have the soul of an animal born in the body of a human. There may be some overlap between furries and otherkin, but they are not the same. Most furries are not otherkin, and most otherkin are not furries.
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Whoosh. s/otherkin/fursona and my argument changes not at all.

Not sure what you think the rights are that furries have that transwomen lack, but yes equal rights would indeed be nice.
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None. There are no rights furries have that transwomen lack. Equal rights are already in effect.

It's a nice Gish Gallop you've got there, but let's get back to the absolute lack of any science supporting the idea that transwomen need any more accommodation in society than otherkin, or that accommodating them is any kind of "treatment" for their "condition".
 
Earthborn said:
For the most part, they are fine with getting rid of it.

Or rather, continue to be able to do so.

These aren't policy changes, in many cases they have been implemented for decades. At most they are clarifications of existing policy.

It is rather tricky to find data comparing different policies when only one policy has existed. It is up to those who want to change policy to show the need for it; that is those who want a policy banning transwomen from women's facilities.
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This borders on gaslighting.

Maybe things are different in the Netherlands, but around these parts, it's a policy change. I suspect it is everywhere else, as well.
 
Meadmaker said:
Maybe things are different in the Netherlands, but around these parts, it's a policy change.
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Not only a policy change, but a significant enough shift that it made the local news when it passed.

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/201...dds-gender-identity-to-protected-status-list/
The board…voted against language that would explicitly say that current practices regarding locker rooms, bathrooms and overnight field trips would stay the same until the board made explicit changes.
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Meadmaker said:
And if you force high school girls to share a locker room with them all that will stop? I suppose some data on that would be helpful. I don't have any.

Since we are balancing rights here, we kind of have to know how bad each solution is.

Of course, balancing those rights requires people to acknowledge that cisgirls lose something if a transgirl is in their locker room.
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And if you force white girls to share a bus bench seat with burly black men, will discrimination against black people stop?

Since we are balancing rights here, we kind of have to know how bad each solution is.

Of course, balancing those rights requires people to acknowledge that white girls lose something if a black man is sitting tight up against them on a bus bench seat.


(You have no idea what you're talking about)
 
LondonJohn said:
That's so funny!! I bet the reactionary bigoted readers of this cartoon strip found it a real hoot!!!
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It´s pretty funny. Most reasonable people realise that pronouns display is just a silly form of virtue signaling, and mocking it is healthy.

And why do you think Jesus and Mo readers are reactionary bigots? It´s a cartoon that mocks (religious) reactionary bigots... I think most readers are probably just freethinkers and atheists...
 
LondonJohn said:
And if you force white girls to share a bus bench seat with burly black men, will discrimination against black people stop?
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Resolved: Gender is no more real than race.

LondonJohn said:
"This borders on gaslighting"??

No words.....
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He's right, though. Saying an obvious policy change doesn't count as a policy change is a textbook example of gaslighting.
 
LondonJohn said:
And if you force white girls to share a bus bench seat with burly black men, will discrimination against black people stop?
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Are you trying to imply that black men pose a unique threat to white women, or are you trying to elide the fact that men pose a unique threat to women in general? This analogy seems designed to do both.

For the nth time, I feel compelled to point out that race is socially constructed and almost entirely useless as a model of reality whereas sex is a biological reality to which some concessions must be made.
theprestige said:
Resolved: Gender is no more real than race.
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[emoji28][emoji28][emoji28]
 
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