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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part III

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Vixen said:
Poor logic. A passenger car ferry sailing in the Baltic on a normally bad late September evening - just like the Europa, Mariella, Symphony and Isabella - was quite normal.


In severe weather warnings, these vessels do not sail.
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But sailing at full speed in to the weather is not normal, Other ships in the area had taken weather routing and slowed down.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Of course it was significant. If it had been calm weather the bow visor would not have been stressed and it would not have come loose.
It may have been possible to that the defects would be discovered and fixed before it went in to a storm.

Why would you think the storm wasn't significant?
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Don't you need to prove the bow visor was stressed by wave in the first place? On the stroke of Swedish midnight, too.
 
Vixen said:
The CIA, MI6 and KSI were helping newly independent Estonia develop its own security services, the KGB having been thrown out. The West were very interested in Russia's military secrets and the Swedes did indeed smuggle out ex-Soviet military materiel on behalf of hostile powers (to Russia).

Why do you think the police were at a conference in Tallinn?

To discuss road traffic, perhaps?
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NKVD, FSO, FSB, GRU, OSS, Mossad, DGSI, GCHQ, chuck them all in to your wild CT, why not? It's all wild fantasy after all.

And do you really think it is somehow suspicious that police attended a police conference? What do you think happened there? They all agreed that whoever got the short straw would drown?
 
Vixen said:
President Clinton was keen to portray himself as peace maker extraordinaire of the Middle East. Let's face it it is this man's vanity that the causes of the Estonia accident were deemed 'classified' (I believe for 70 years). Just to save this vain man's face.
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Wut? Estonia sank in the middle east now? If you want to randomly connect dots, it helps if you have dots to start with.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
So no evidence that Sweden was a 'puppet' of the USA.

What is your evidence that Clinton had any involvement in the sinking or the enquiry?
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As POTUS Clinton was presumed head of the CIA (of course his Generals report to him and he does as they say). At the time Clinton was a great peace ambassador. Being potentially caught smuggling stuff to Israel wasn't something it wanted coming out; it just did what it normally does and called it 'classified'.


Image intact.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
But the bow visor did have a design fault, it fell off and the locks broke. Just like they did on the Diana II but luckily the problem on that ship was noticed and they were repaired.

There were no design or strength standard for bow visors at the time so how would the designers know if there was a fault?

How does the report show you that there was sabotage?
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You need to address that question to Mojo as he seems to think it should.
 
Vixen said:
Poor logic. A passenger car ferry sailing in the Baltic on a normally bad late September evening - just like the Europa, Mariella, Symphony and Isabella - was quite normal.


In severe weather warnings, these vessels do not sail.
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Do you recall a rather recent post in this thread - "Comparisons are odious."?

Anyway, many ships have sailed without incident in similar weather conditions to those the Estonia encountered that night. No one has disputed that. In your own words "This was a normally bad autumn storm in the Baltic". So apparently no *severe weather warning* was required and this vessel, and others, were ok to sail. The 6 meter+ waves in the normally bad autumn storm in the Baltic were sufficient to cause a catastrophic failure of the previously compromised bow components of this particular ship..
 
Captain_Swoop said:
But sailing at full speed in to the weather is not normal, Other ships in the area had taken weather routing and slowed down.
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The other ships were coming from Helsinki, thus they could hug the Finnish coastline. Did you know Tallinn to Stockholm consists of open sea until such point it reaches the Finnish archipelago?
 

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Vixen said:
It is true nobody saw the visor fall off. Nobody saw the car ramp open. There is a very good chance that the visor was still hanging off when the ship sank.

There is zero evidence the bow visor fell off at 0115 as the JAIC claim. That is purely hypothetical.

Sillaste, whom Bildt and Lehtola quote, in an early press release, has never said the bow visor was missing.
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That is not what he is saying though, is it? He isn't saying "no one saw it fall off" he's saying it was still attached to the ship when the ship sank.

Stop attempting to stuff words into peoples mouths to get them to say what you want and deal with what is being said. You've done it to several of your interlocutors and now you're doing it to your own source. Anders Bjorkman is a delusional moron, not a credible expert.

Also you still have yet to substantiate your lie that Bildt asked Clinton to approve his government picks. You're now desperately flailing at something, anything that makes Clinton look bad as if it answers our questions to you.
 
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Vixen said:
As POTUS Clinton was presumed head of the CIA (of course his Generals report to him and he does as they say). At the time Clinton was a great peace ambassador. Being potentially caught smuggling stuff to Israel wasn't something it wanted coming out; it just did what it normally does and called it 'classified'.


Image intact.
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WHAT?

You think the President is head of the CIA?

You can't be serious.
 
abaddon said:
NKVD, FSO, FSB, GRU, OSS, Mossad, DGSI, GCHQ, chuck them all in to your wild CT, why not? It's all wild fantasy after all.

And do you really think it is somehow suspicious that police attended a police conference? What do you think happened there? They all agreed that whoever got the short straw would drown?
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I didn't say it was suspicious. I was pointing out they were helping out Estonia develop its own intelligence services, as there are some people who think it is a conspiracy theory that they would do this.
 
Vixen said:
The other ships were coming from Helsinki, thus they could hug the Finnish coastline. Did you know Tallinn to Stockholm consists of open sea until such point it reaches the Finnish archipelago?
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More *odious comparisons* :eek:. Why do you keep posting such irrelevant *odious comparisons*? What happened to other ships that night has no bearing on the events on the Estonia. Perhaps you should try to stay on topic and stop responding to *odious comparisons* posted by others.
 
abaddon said:
Wut? Estonia sank in the middle east now? If you want to randomly connect dots, it helps if you have dots to start with.
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The attaché case retrieved by Rockwater belonged to a staunch Russian Jewish Zionist who was an arms trader.

He appears to have been sharing a cabin with Captain Piht.

Jutta Rabe says she was informed by an insider that the FSU materiel on board was intended for Israel and there were two US-registered cargo planes at Arlanda on that date which flew out with nine unnamed passengers circa 29 September, one to Maine and the other to Amsterdam (a transition airport) and the US Embassy in Stockholm paid for them.

Do you see the political row this might have caused if it had come to light?
 
Vixen said:
As POTUS Clinton was presumed head of the CIA (of course his Generals report to him and he does as they say). At the time Clinton was a great peace ambassador. Being potentially caught smuggling stuff to Israel wasn't something it wanted coming out; it just did what it normally does and called it 'classified'.


Image intact.
Click to expand...
Israel is not anywhere near the Baltic. What fresh hell is this claim?
 
Vixen said:
The attaché case retrieved by Rockwater belonged to a staunch Russian Jewish Zionist who was an arms trader.

He appears to have been sharing a cabin with Captain Piht.

Jutta Rabe says she was informed by an insider that the FSU materiel on board was intended for Israel and there were two US-registered cargo planes at Arlanda on that date which flew out with nine unnamed passengers circa 29 September, one to Maine and the other to Amsterdam (a transition airport) and the US Embassy in Stockholm paid for them.

Do you see the political row this might have caused if it had come to light?
Click to expand...

You have now very cleverly brought it to light. Can we expect an imminent political row?
 
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